Bunny Trails

[JohnH]

Let's move the specifics of the discussion about AP to the AP thread. I wanted this thread to be about the problem of Stereotyping and Overgeneralizing things about Anabpatists outside of AP.

Getting back to AP, I've actually been quite careful to treat it as an independent "thing" and not just devolve into stereotypes about the kind of constituency its founders are part of, although so far those stereotypes seem to have held fast.

This happens so reliably in Anabaptist circles that most of us simply eventually accept that you can judge 90% of an organisation based on the constituency of the people who founded it / run it. Rarely, this isn't the case when someone founds an institution that is at odds with their constituency.

For AP's founders' constituency, it is quite a popular thing to start nonprofits, parachurch organisations, mission organisations, blogs, podcasts, and so on, and so it should not come as a huge surprise when the founders of AP seem to be doing the exact same thing. It's just what they do, almost as reliable as an Old Order person might talk about the Horse Progress. Is it a stereotype? Yes. Does it happen almost every single time you talk long enough? Yes.

[JohnH]

This shouldn't be a particularly hard question to answer. My impression was that is a formerly Beachy type background place that is now independent and would generally find itself aligned with ADC, but I might be wrong.

Wrong.

I suppose perhaps we could talk a bit more about the background of whatever institution AP is and its founder; my impression is it was founded and run by people who belong to the "barely-still-plain Anabaptists" constituency in terms of where they sit on the continuum of tradition, conservatism vs liberalism, and so forth. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'll oblige.
Among moderate-conservatives, Wellspring Mennonite, Athens, TN is one of the more conservative, principled, historically Anabaptist churches on that side of the spectrum. They are among the least transitional in their constituency. They have raised some fine, servant hearted young people. If someone was looking for a church with the above criteria, I would recommend this one.

I would second that. I have worked alongside these people, know about half of their ministry. I would in no wise call them “transitional.”

What level of conservatism would people in that congregation’s parents and grandparents generally have had?

[Judas Maccabeus]

Wrong.


I'll oblige.
Among moderate-conservatives, Wellspring Mennonite, Athens, TN is one of the more conservative, principled, historically Anabaptist churches on that side of the spectrum. They are among the least transitional in their constituency. They have raised some fine, servant hearted young people. If someone was looking for a church with the above criteria, I would recommend this one.

I would second that. I have worked alongside these people, know about half of their ministry. I would in no wise call them “transitional.”

What level of conservatism would people in that congregation’s parents and grandparents generally have had?

Well, frankly they did not use the internet.

The only basis for this prattle is that you seem to consider the Holdeman movement the “One true church “ which it demonstrably is not. I suspect you have a bit of an ax to grind against Moderate Conservatives. I will leave it at that.

[Thomas_muntzer]

I see the US is now bombing oil tanker ships in the straight of Hormuz. A year ago I would have confidently said this would never happen. I really don't recognize the Trump America anymore, it's a foreign country to me.

That’s how I felt when Liberal presidents advocate for abortion and lit at the White House in rainbow colors and told the gay activist “This is their country now. So I understand how you feel.” Trump was the only president that marched in the pro-life march.
God certainly called enough wars but He never promoted sexual sins like Democrat presidents and Kate term abortions.

Donald Trump has cheated on his three wives multiple times (no-fault divorce is a sexual sin).

So, he has done much worse than merely promoting sexual sins; he has committed them himself—not to mention the disgusting things he admitted to doing at the vanity and lust-driven pageants he owned, such as Miss Teen America, Miss USA, and Miss Universe.

It is one thing to claim that Democratic presidents have been worse, but let’s not pretend that Trump is an example of Christian values.

[JohnH]

The only basis for this prattle is that you seem to consider the Holdeman movement the “One true church “ which it demonstrably is not.

It has nothing at all to do with that.

I suspect you have a bit of an ax to grind against Moderate Conservatives. I will leave it at that.

I consider moderate-conservatives to be an utterly lost cause, as they are nearly all transitional. (Fundamental-conservatives I actually have a bit more hope for.)

As a seeker, I can never hope in a million years to fit in or be part of a transitional setting where the culture is defined by "we are less plain than our parents, who in turn were less plain than our grandparents". That is one of the reasons I consider it a lost cause.

[barnhart]

Aren't "seekers" by definition transitional.

[GaryK]

The only basis for this prattle is that you seem to consider the Holdeman movement the “One true church “ which it demonstrably is not.

It has nothing at all to do with that.

I suspect you have a bit of an ax to grind against Moderate Conservatives. I will leave it at that.

I consider moderate-conservatives to be an utterly lost cause, as they are nearly all transitional. (Fundamental-conservatives I actually have a bit more hope for.)

As a seeker, I can never hope in a million years to fit in or be part of a transitional setting where the culture is defined by "we are less plain than our parents, who in turn were less plain than our grandparents". That is one of the reasons I consider it a lost cause.

Then why spend so much time on MN bashing a lost cause? Something I'm curious if your church supports? Also, that seems like a waste of time to me. Why not put your time and efforts into making sure your church and young people never move in direction more "liberal" than their parents and grandparents?

[GaryK]

Wrong.


I'll oblige.
Among moderate-conservatives, Wellspring Mennonite, Athens, TN is one of the more conservative, principled, historically Anabaptist churches on that side of the spectrum. They are among the least transitional in their constituency. They have raised some fine, servant hearted young people. If someone was looking for a church with the above criteria, I would recommend this one.

I would second that. I have worked alongside these people, know about half of their ministry. I would in no wise call them “transitional.”

What level of conservatism would people in that congregation’s parents and grandparents generally have had?

Is conservatism (political and in the church) the thing you are most concerned about?

[Judas Maccabeus]

The only basis for this prattle is that you seem to consider the Holdeman movement the “One true church “ which it demonstrably is not.

It has nothing at all to do with that.

I suspect you have a bit of an ax to grind against Moderate Conservatives. I will leave it at that.

I consider moderate-conservatives to be an utterly lost cause, as they are nearly all transitional. (Fundamental-conservatives I actually have a bit more hope for.)

As a seeker, I can never hope in a million years to fit in or be part of a transitional setting where the culture is defined by "we are less plain than our parents, who in turn were less plain than our grandparents". That is one of the reasons I consider it a lost cause.

Then why spend so much time on MN bashing a lost cause? Something I'm curious if your church supports? Also, that seems like a waste of time to me. Why not put your time and efforts into making sure your church and young people never move in direction more "liberal" than their parents and grandparents?

No. He is just miffed because we won’t let him join. He is ineligible for membership in virtually all Moderate Conservative Mennonite churches.

It is no small coincidence that the church he is a member of is about the only conservative church he could join.

[Soloist]

No. He is just miffed because we won’t let him join. He is ineligible for membership in virtually all Moderate Conservative Mennonite churches.

It is no small coincidence that the church he is a member of is about the only conservative church he could join.

That’s not really fair given his experience was tolerated sexual problems from the top level. He only married after the fact.