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Soloist wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 7:50 am

Grace wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 7:23 am For once Ken and I agree on something. Another aspect that might keep Amish children more healthy is the fact they usually live in less sterile environments, than their non-Amish peers. The fact that they are around horses, other animals, run barefoot, maybe don't bathe as often, etc. builds up their immune systems starting at birth.

My children are not allowed to run outside barefoot… I’m kind of opposed to hookworms.

Yet the evidence says that groups who regularly have their children barefoot around horse and bovine manure have better health outcomes.

Josh wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 9:25 am
Yet the evidence says that groups who regularly have their children barefoot around horse and bovine manure have better health outcomes.

Where is this evidence and is it based on South America or the south region of USA?

The evidence I’ve seen is poor in those regions with multiple health problems from parasites.

Josh wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 9:25 am

Soloist wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 7:50 am

Grace wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 7:23 am For once Ken and I agree on something. Another aspect that might keep Amish children more healthy is the fact they usually live in less sterile environments, than their non-Amish peers. The fact that they are around horses, other animals, run barefoot, maybe don't bathe as often, etc. builds up their immune systems starting at birth.

My children are not allowed to run outside barefoot… I’m kind of opposed to hookworms.

Yet the evidence says that groups who regularly have their children barefoot around horse and bovine manure have better health outcomes.

Probably helps if they are around it rather than in it...

Josh wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 9:24 am Holmes Co. has a higher percentage of Amish than Mifflin, so according to Ken’s numbers, the Amish apparently did better with Covid than non Amish people.

The fact of the matter is that pretty much every county in the US with large populations of Amish did worse than the national average when it comes to COVID deaths. Is that because of the Amish? Or because in these rural counties everyone, both Amish and non-Amish were less likely to follow pandemic recommendations for masking, vaccines, etc.? Probably the latter. But we have no way of knowing.

County-by-county data is actually the only data we have on the Amish and COVID because no one tracked COVID among the Amish separately from the general population. No one tracked COVID deaths by religious affiliation in any county anywhere that I'm aware of. Health departments don't collect that information. So we can't really make conclusions about any religious group.

So any claims that the Amish did better or worse than the general population is just made up nonsense or anecdotal assertions not based on any actual data or evidence. As is the case with the study referenced here. Which is about children anyway who were rarely affected by COVID in the first place. So don't know why the authors even brought up COVID which mostly affected the elderly when it came to mortality. Mostly it is just anti-vax garbage from the authors and not worthy of anyone's time.

Are Amish children healthier than the normal? Perhaps. But if they are it has nothing to do with COVID vaccines.

Ken wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 10:25 am So any claims that the Amish did better or worse than the general population is just made up nonsense or anecdotal assertions not based on any actual data or evidence. As is the case with the study referenced here. Which is about children anyway who were rarely affected by COVID in the first place. So don't know why the authors even brought up COVID which mostly affected the elderly when it came to mortality. Mostly it is just anti-vax garbage from the authors and not worthy of anyone's time.

Are Amish children healthier than the normal? Perhaps. But if they are it has nothing to do with COVID vaccines.

Wife: It’s not rocket science to think that children who run around and play instead of sit in front of a computer or tv might have health benefits. Our doctor sees a lot of childhood obesity, but says that our children are pretty low risk for that. Also, Amish men and women typically do a lot of physical work, and are unlikely to drink or smoke or make regular trips to McDonald’s, so that has to to count for something. The primary thing they have going against them is all those amazing baked goods.

Soloist wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 11:28 am

Ken wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 10:25 am So any claims that the Amish did better or worse than the general population is just made up nonsense or anecdotal assertions not based on any actual data or evidence. As is the case with the study referenced here. Which is about children anyway who were rarely affected by COVID in the first place. So don't know why the authors even brought up COVID which mostly affected the elderly when it came to mortality. Mostly it is just anti-vax garbage from the authors and not worthy of anyone's time.

Are Amish children healthier than the normal? Perhaps. But if they are it has nothing to do with COVID vaccines.

Wife: It’s not rocket science to think that children who run around and play instead of sit in front of a computer or tv might have health benefits. Our doctor sees a lot of childhood obesity, but says that our children are pretty low risk for that. Also, Amish men and women typically do a lot of physical work, and are unlikely to drink or smoke or make regular trips to McDonald’s, so that has to to count for something. The primary thing they have going against them is all those amazing baked goods.

Oh, I would agree. None of this has anything to do with vaccines though. As for whether the Amish are the world's healthiest children? Healthier than say children in rural Japan to pick one random place? I have no idea but I doubt it. The authors of this so-called study have idea either because they didn't actually study the topic or even conduct an actual study. They just used the subject line to toss out some anti-vax nonsense.

With respect to COVID I expect if anyone actually did a serious epidemiological study on COVID death rates among the Amish they would find that they probably mirror the rest of the population when controlled for age and vaccination status. In other words, vaccinated Amish probably died at about the same rate as other vaccinated Americans of the same age and gender. And unvaccinated Amish probably died at about the same rate as other unvaccinated Americans of the same age and gender. It is a virus, it doesn't discriminate based on religious affiliation.

Ken wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 11:38 am

Soloist wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 11:28 am

Ken wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 10:25 am So any claims that the Amish did better or worse than the general population is just made up nonsense or anecdotal assertions not based on any actual data or evidence. As is the case with the study referenced here. Which is about children anyway who were rarely affected by COVID in the first place. So don't know why the authors even brought up COVID which mostly affected the elderly when it came to mortality. Mostly it is just anti-vax garbage from the authors and not worthy of anyone's time.

Are Amish children healthier than the normal? Perhaps. But if they are it has nothing to do with COVID vaccines.

Wife: It’s not rocket science to think that children who run around and play instead of sit in front of a computer or tv might have health benefits. Our doctor sees a lot of childhood obesity, but says that our children are pretty low risk for that. Also, Amish men and women typically do a lot of physical work, and are unlikely to drink or smoke or make regular trips to McDonald’s, so that has to to count for something. The primary thing they have going against them is all those amazing baked goods.

Oh, I would agree. None of this has anything to do with vaccines though. As for whether the Amish are the world's healthiest children? Healthier than say children in rural Japan to pick one random place? I have no idea but I doubt it. The authors of this so-called study have idea either because they didn't actually study the topic or even conduct an actual study. They just used the subject line to toss out some anti-vax nonsense.

With respect to COVID I expect if anyone actually did a serious epidemiological study on COVID death rates among the Amish they would find that they probably mirror the rest of the population when controlled for age and vaccination status. In other words, vaccinated Amish probably died at about the same rate as other vaccinated Americans of the same age and gender. And unvaccinated Amish probably died at about the same rate as other unvaccinated Americans of the same age and gender. It is a virus, it doesn't discriminate based on religious affiliation.

Wife: I was actually agreeing with what you were saying about the other factors. I don’t think I’ve heard about very many other children that got it bad when they got covid either, unless they had some risk factor. I would probably think that Amish children's health would likely be similar to any other random child who has that lifestyle, other than possibly not having to deal with tropical diseases, poor sanitation, malnutrition or issues that pop up in other countries. Their biggest health issue would probably be lack of genetic diversity causing increased rates of certain diseases.

Soloist wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 7:50 am

Grace wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 7:23 am For once Ken and I agree on something. Another aspect that might keep Amish children more healthy is the fact they usually live in less sterile environments, than their non-Amish peers. The fact that they are around horses, other animals, run barefoot, maybe don't bathe as often, etc. builds up their immune systems starting at birth.

My children are not allowed to run outside barefoot… I’m kind of opposed to hookworms.

LOL...You have a valid point.

My children rarely wear shoes when school is out. This morning my 11 year old left at 4:00 am to go hoe weeds in a field 2-3 hours away. He forgot his shoes.
A few years back they got warts. Not sure if that comes from going bare footed or not. But no hook worms. One did cut his bare foot years ago while using a machete to cut down corn.

RZehr wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 12:32 pm My children rarely wear shoes when school is out. This morning my 11 year old left at 4:00 am to go hoe weeds in a field 2-3 hours away. He forgot his shoes.
A few years back they got warts. Not sure if that comes from going bare footed or not. But no hook worms. One did cut his bare foot years ago while using a machete to cut down corn.

It’s more of a southern issue and not a northern issue. Historically a problem in areas like Alabama, Georgia and Mississippi.