Seekers Gathering 2018 long thread

[steve-in-kville]

I'm obviously quite new to this Seekers Gathering, but if someone is welcome here on the forum, they should be welcome there too.

Unless of course you were flipping tables over or trying to hijack the event

[Josh]

I'm obviously quite new to this Seekers Gathering, but if someone is welcome here on the forum, they should be welcome there too.

Unless of course you were flipping tables over or trying to hijack the event

No, I didn’t think it appropriate to promote a particular church there. At the time I considered myself a seeker as much as everyone else.

In retrospect, about 3-4 of us who are seekers but already in churches ended up airing a lot of complaints with the Anabaptist world. (I didn’t start it, but eventually I offered sympathy and agreement with the other guys who did.) If I had it to do over again, I would have tried to be much more positive in front of seekers who weren’t familiar with conservative Anabaptist politics.

I think our frustrations came out too “negative” in front of new seekers.

[Ernie]

We had the same parameters for the first Seekers Gathering.
So no, it was not put there to exclude Josh in particular.
One of the goals of this gathering is to promote the good and break down barriers between kingdom Christians. Loyalist, one-true-church, and rebaptizers from any denomination (e.g. COGIM, OOGB, CoC, Orthodox, Catholic, and some Apostolics) are not in position to help break down such barriers.

[Josh]

We had the same parameters for the first Seekers Gathering.
So no, it was not put there to exclude Josh in particular.
One of the goals of this gathering is to promote the good and break down barriers between kingdom Christians. Loyalist, one-true-church, and rebaptizers from any denomination (e.g. COGIM, OOGB, CoC, Orthodox, Catholic, and some Apostolics) are not in position to help break down such barriers.

Have any such people come to these meetings to try to promote such beliefs?

All I can see is walls going up at this meeting by explicitly excluding COGICM members, when literally the only one who would come is me, and I don’t have a history of promoting such things.

As I’ve stated before, the main reason I am stuck in the COGICM is because my stance on holding an abuser accountable left me without any other options where I live. Given what has since happened with CAM and how I was treated before that scandal broke, I hope you’ll be sympathetic to where I find myself now. I am simply not welcome in a Mid-West, Beachy, or Charity church.

In reality, what you’ve done is exclude me for the stance I took. Do you think I took the wrong stance 4 years ago?

[Bootstrap]

I'm obviously quite new to this Seekers Gathering, but if someone is welcome here on the forum, they should be welcome there too.

Unless of course you were flipping tables over or trying to hijack the event

I don't think the Seeker's Gathering is a MennoNet meetup, it has a different purpose. I think a smaller group of like-minded people who are trying to start something are inviting newcomers to hear what they are doing, and they don't want that to be a place where people coming from different places discuss or debate the various points of view. To me, that's quite reasonable. I am not coming from the same place on some of these issues, I am glad that the recordings will be available.

I assume people coming from a different Mennonite perspective could hold a similar event. I assume people who want a MennoNet meetup could organize one. Each kind of event would have a different purpose.

[GaryK]

We had the same parameters for the first Seekers Gathering.
So no, it was not put there to exclude Josh in particular.
One of the goals of this gathering is to promote the good and break down barriers between kingdom Christians. Loyalist, one-true-church, and rebaptizers from any denomination (e.g. COGIM, OOGB, CoC, Orthodox, Catholic, and some Apostolics) are not in position to help break down such barriers.

Have any such people come to these meetings to try to promote such beliefs?

All I can see is walls going up at this meeting by explicitly excluding COGICM members, when literally the only one who would come is me, and I don’t have a history of promoting such things.

As I’ve stated before, the main reason I am stuck in the COGICM is because my stance on holding an abuser accountable left me without any other options where I live. Given what has since happened with CAM and how I was treated before that scandal broke, I hope you’ll be sympathetic to where I find myself now. I am simply not welcome in a Mid-West, Beachy, or Charity church.

In reality, what you’ve done is exclude me for the stance I took. Do you think I took the wrong stance 4 years ago?

To make this about a stance you took 4 years ago, completely unrelated to the Seekers Gathering, seems like quite a stretch to me. I note with interest your wording "I am stuck in the COGICM". I thought you really wanted to be there. Have you had a change of heart?

[Ernie]

I assume people coming from a different Mennonite perspective could hold a similar event. I assume people who want a MennoNet meetup could organize one. Each kind of event would have a different purpose.

Yes. I encouraged that in 2018.

We had discussed most of these matters at length 2-3 years ago. http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=551

I am asking that any further discussion about the parameters be taken up in the 2018 thread.

Thank you.

[Josh]

We had the same parameters for the first Seekers Gathering.
So no, it was not put there to exclude Josh in particular.
One of the goals of this gathering is to promote the good and break down barriers between kingdom Christians. Loyalist, one-true-church, and rebaptizers from any denomination (e.g. COGIM, OOGB, CoC, Orthodox, Catholic, and some Apostolics) are not in position to help break down such barriers.

Have any such people come to these meetings to try to promote such beliefs?

All I can see is walls going up at this meeting by explicitly excluding COGICM members, when literally the only one who would come is me, and I don’t have a history of promoting such things.

As I’ve stated before, the main reason I am stuck in the COGICM is because my stance on holding an abuser accountable left me without any other options where I live. Given what has since happened with CAM and how I was treated before that scandal broke, I hope you’ll be sympathetic to where I find myself now. I am simply not welcome in a Mid-West, Beachy, or Charity church.

In reality, what you’ve done is exclude me for the stance I took. Do you think I took the wrong stance 4 years ago?

To make this about a stance you took 4 years ago, completely unrelated to the Seekers Gathering, seems like quite a stretch to me. I note with interest your wording "I am stuck in the COGICM". I thought you really wanted to be there. Have you had a change of heart?

I’m quite glad to be where I am. However, I literally ran out of other options, and mostly for the stances I took regarding abuse. For this reason, I’m not very happy about being excluded from something like this.

It’s not like I go around preaching the virtues of rebaptism (although Anabaptists are supposed to, well, be re-baptisers), nor do I go around trying to recruit people for the One True Church.

Since the original Seekers’ Gathering, Ernie’s had a major complaint with me affiliating with the Holdemans. It appears that despite him affirming that my behaviour in regards to that was as he requested at the 2018 gathering, he still feels it is best to ban me from the 2020 gathering simply because I am a member of my church, and will not publicly commit that I am questioning my church’s beliefs. (Interestingly elsewhere the Seekers’ Gathering requests that people not come who are questioning Anabaptist beliefs.)

In my opinion, I think my circumstances and behaviour call for different treatment. If this is really about “tearing down walls”, then tear down this wall.

[Ernie]

I don't want to spend my life trying to correct all the misrepresentations or defend the accusations. Anyone who does have time for that is welcome to do so on this thread.

I also don't plan to talk about Josh publicly. I don't see any New Testament injunction for publicly airing our personal grievances with others.

I'm hosting the 2020 gathering in order to foster a certain kind of conversation.
If someone wants a different kind of conversation, they are welcome to host a different kind of event.
Penn Valley Christian Retreat and many other places would be glad for the business.
We all have events we are comfortable attending and ones we are not.

I suggest that Steve and Josh put together a MennoMeet for the types of discussions that can be found on MennoNet.
If the MennoMeet was held near me, I would probably attend. But I likely wouldn't invite the same people to come with me as I would invite to the 2020 Seekers Gathering.

[queserasera_2]

Yes, we would be glad to have your contribution! Bring some folks along.

So... perhaps I'm reading way too far into this "gathering." Certain people here on the board are banned but yet others can bring random people that you never met??

Don't worry, my entire fellowship is banned as well. Not that I really qualify as a seeker.