briar patch

[Josh]

Josh, I don't know if you believe these conspiracy theories or not, I have not heard you state them. I assume you do not believe them. I don't think I said or implied that you do.

I do think that demonizing asylum seekers is playing with fire. It was the motivation for the shooter.

I think it's possible to be sceptical of asylum seekers without becoming a mass murderer.

I think it's a nasty, back-handed way to try to shut down debate to tell someone "that's the motivation for the shooter" when they express scepticism for your political point of view.

Trump is pushing conspiracy theories related to the caravan, he is calling them invaders, using language that implies a military invasion, sending troops to the border to make it look like a military invasion, and connecting Soros (a Jew) to the caravan. I find this alarming.

Scepticism of asylum seekers and economic migrants predates Trump. It predates this caravan. My opinions and point of view haven't changed and predate Trump's election, or these "caravans".

The shooter's social media history shows that he believed this conspiracy theory and associated it with HIAS, a Jewish refugee resettlement group. That was the last thing he posted about before he went in and shot the Jews in Squirrel Hill.

I don't think you are spreading this conspiracy theory. I don't think you shot anyone. I don't think I was talking about you.

But I do think we should be very careful about how we speak about refugees. Especially in today's political climate. Let's be careful to avoid pouring gas on this fire.

Boot, I don't care for you to respond to my legitimate concern by crowing a lot about anti-semitism.

We can't have a civil conversation if you decide to throw around accusations that I'm being anti-semitic, a conspiracy theorist, and pouring gas on a fire simply for engaging in reasonable political debate about the topic of asylum seekers. There was absolutely no reason at all to respond to me the way you did.

[Bootstrap]

For what it's worth, I just read through the thread, I didn't see you say anything remotely like what I was referring to here. But I didn't claim you did, either.

Yet you responded to me by quoting a mass murderer. I don't think I did anything to deserve that.

I would like people to be aware of the level of hatred and anger being directed toward refugees and some other groups in this country today.

I would like all of us, as Christians, to treat this as a sensitive issue.

I did not compare you to a mass murderer, I really don't think I implied that you are anything like a mass murderer or that you believe in these conspiracy theories. But I really do think it's important to be aware of the extent to which refugees are being demonized.

I'm sorry if you felt like you were being demonized. That was not my intent. But I do intend to speak about these kinds of things when these subjects come up.

[Josh]

Here's Boot's full context:

What is the purpose of this thread?

You are using pure speculation to tie Mennonites to push Republican talking points about the caravan, demonizing both refugees and Mennonites in the process.

On what basis have you decided that the caravan is composed solely of law abiding people?

We don't. We do know that asylum seekers have the right, under both American law and international law, to present their claims. The United States government can then evaluate their claims to decide who has the right to asylum.

Please, let's not demonize asylum seekers or the people who try to keep them safe. Remember where these conspiracy theories can lead.

HIAS likes to bring invaders in that kill our people. I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics, I’m going in.

So here's what I see.

You ask the purpose of the thread and address it to a "you" who we aren't sure who that is.

Next you quote me and express your political opinion that anyone can enter the United States if they claim to be an asylum seeker.

Then, right after your response to me, you bring up a mass murderer, and express concern that scepticism about asylum seeker will lead to mass murders.

I called you out in this specific post on this. Then you brought up George Soros, anti-Semitism, and Trump.

Boot, do you really want to debate this, or do you just want an echo chamber will nobody ever says anything you're uncomfortable with? Lobbing anti-Semitism at me is particularly crass.

[Bootstrap]

Josh, have you considered asking clarifying questions if my intent is not clear to you?

I'm afraid I really do need to be able to be the expert on what I mean and feel. This comes up too often, I just don't have the energy to enter a debate every time you say I said something that I don't think I said. I don't think trying to do this in public with an audience helps us get any closer to mutual understanding.

I want neither a debate nor an echo chamber. And I don't want to pursue what's going on in this thread any further, either.

[Josh]

Josh, have you considered asking clarifying questions if my intent is not clear to you?

I'm afraid I really do need to be able to be the expert on what I mean and feel. This comes up too often, I just don't have the energy to enter a debate every time you say I said something that I don't think I said. I don't think trying to do this in public with an audience helps us get any closer to mutual understanding.

I want neither a debate nor an echo chamber. And I don't want to pursue what's going on in this thread any further, either.

Boot, how am I supposed to interpret this?

On what basis have you decided that the caravan is composed solely of law abiding people?

We don't. We do know that asylum seekers have the right, under both American law and international law, to present their claims. The United States government can then evaluate their claims to decide who has the right to asylum.

Please, let's not demonize asylum seekers or the people who try to keep them safe. Remember where these conspiracy theories can lead.

HIAS likes to bring invaders in that kill our people. I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics, I’m going in.

You responded to me with 2 paragraphs. The second was a warning not to be a mass murderer.

I'm afraid I really do need to be able to be the expert on what I mean and feel.

I started this thread to clarify what happened (and ask for an apology, which I think is pretty reasonable).

You launched into discussing conspiracy theories, George Soros, and anti-Semitism. I fail to see how anything I said had anything to do with that.

Nobody is bringing up those topics except you.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Starr County is a rural county in the Rio Grande Valley in south Texas. How many protests do you think are going on there?

No. Illegals are crossing the border that are sick so they can get free healthcare.

Maybe if the border patrol went back to watching the border rather than beating up people in Portland, this would not happen.

J.M,

[Judas Maccabeus]

Unlikely, especially since the government isn’t holding people anymore, but sending them back over the border immediately. It’s much more likely that local Americans are not maintains social distance and spreading the virus.

There has actually been some reporting on this. They are sneaking across, like many often do. The border patrol is not catching them and they are going into southern state cities to hospitals.

It is not all the answer, but some. Some are from protests. Some are from not social distancing. Not sure why it can not be all of the above. Why do people think protesters and illegals are immune?

Illegals and the Hispanic community is 47% of Texas Covid cases. That is a lot. The Hispanic community is well known for close community and for years illegals came across to access healthcare. These are just facts. Not saying they are evil. Just saying this is what is driving some of the increases in the southern border states.

California is worse than Texas and Florida combined right now. If draconian restrictions worked, why is California doing worse? Because what we are doing is not as effective as they want you to think.

We will soon learn that we have to live with the virus, not avoid it at all costs. The costs are too high. They are killing people.

Maybe if the border patrol went back to watching the border rather than beating up people in Portland, this would not happen.

Well, you go up there and stop the rioting and see what happens to you. No, you are happy to stay in your safe little bobble and judge others.

Hon, I happen to live in America’s largest cities, the (former) home of Freddie Grey. We have frequent demonstrations. If we had those brownshirts here, we would have riots too.

Maybe you should leave your rural bubble.

J.M,

[silentreader]

Unlikely, especially since the government isn’t holding people anymore, but sending them back over the border immediately. It’s much more likely that local Americans are not maintains social distance and spreading the virus.

There has actually been some reporting on this. They are sneaking across, like many often do. The border patrol is not catching them and they are going into southern state cities to hospitals.

It is not all the answer, but some. Some are from protests. Some are from not social distancing. Not sure why it can not be all of the above. Why do people think protesters and illegals are immune?

Illegals and the Hispanic community is 47% of Texas Covid cases. That is a lot. The Hispanic community is well known for close community and for years illegals came across to access healthcare. These are just facts. Not saying they are evil. Just saying this is what is driving some of the increases in the southern border states.

California is worse than Texas and Florida combined right now. If draconian restrictions worked, why is California doing worse? Because what we are doing is not as effective as they want you to think.

We will soon learn that we have to live with the virus, not avoid it at all costs. The costs are too high. They are killing people.

Maybe if the border patrol went back to watching the border rather than beating up people in Portland, this would not happen.

Well, you go up there and stop the rioting and see what happens to you. No, you are happy to stay in your safe little bobble and judge others.

Hon, I happen to live in America’s largest cities, the (former) home of Freddie Grey. We have frequent demonstrations. If we had those brownshirts here, we would have riots too.

Maybe you should leave your rural bubble.

J.M,

Which came first, the rioting or the "brownshirts"?

[Robert]

Hon, I happen to live in America’s largest cities, the (former) home of Freddie Grey. We have frequent demonstrations. If we had those brownshirts here, we would have riots too.

Maybe you should leave your rural bubble.

J.M,

Hon, I was born in the inner city of Baltimore and lived in several large cities and worked downtown. I live in my rural bubble now because I left that mess behind.

Your constant references to Nazis is ridiculous and I grow tired of it. I have lost a lot of respect for you because of it. I no longer an interested in hearing your opinions since they are so biased and distorted. I pray for those you care for. I hope they experience a better side than you show here. Goodbye.

[Judas Maccabeus]

There has actually been some reporting on this. They are sneaking across, like many often do. The border patrol is not catching them and they are going into southern state cities to hospitals.

It is not all the answer, but some. Some are from protests. Some are from not social distancing. Not sure why it can not be all of the above. Why do people think protesters and illegals are immune?

Illegals and the Hispanic community is 47% of Texas Covid cases. That is a lot. The Hispanic community is well known for close community and for years illegals came across to access healthcare. These are just facts. Not saying they are evil. Just saying this is what is driving some of the increases in the southern border states.

California is worse than Texas and Florida combined right now. If draconian restrictions worked, why is California doing worse? Because what we are doing is not as effective as they want you to think.

We will soon learn that we have to live with the virus, not avoid it at all costs. The costs are too high. They are killing people.



Well, you go up there and stop the rioting and see what happens to you. No, you are happy to stay in your safe little bobble and judge others.

Hon, I happen to live in America’s largest cities, the (former) home of Freddie Grey. We have frequent demonstrations. If we had those brownshirts here, we would have riots too.

Maybe you should leave your rural bubble.

J.M,

Which came first, the rioting or the "brownshirts"?

The riots, but the proper authority to deal with this is the local police, followed by the state police, followed by the”well regulated “ militia, all under the unified control of the state government. Sending this semi-anonymous force in only creates more trouble. This has largely become a police riot.

What I have seen here is more like things I saw in Jordan and the UAE when I lived there. I never thought I would see this here in America.

I am a (long past) student of modern Europe. These people fill the same function as the SA. Beat up the regime’s opponent’s. Establish the authority of the “leader”, and create the condition for emergency rule.

I fear for the future.

J.M.