Bunny Trails

[JayP]

Ken, I totally understand where you are coming from. FWWIW My wife was in an StD program although she gave it up. I was a much better choice compared to theology. Anyway, my real comment is posting to non Catholics the actual statements rarely solves anything.

Heck, I try not to read them. For Catholicism is in some ways no different than Anabaptists churches.
I remember when the documents clearly said you cannot have alter girls or do first communion before first confession.
BUT I saw many parishes just chug right along doing what they want.

And I will stand by my earlier statement that this Pope and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith are now in full Vatican II mode in that you deliberately word everything so the liberals can do want they want and the neo cons can take solice that’s the words say no one should be doing this. New day,,,same song.

Forget new issues, all those folks that are good Catholics sitting in the pews every Sunday take a poll and only 40 pct tell you they believe in the Real Presence. So what is the answer to the question “Do Catholics believe…….”

And that does not include the confusion that every born Irishhor Italian who has not seen a priest since 8th grade answered any poll with “ Yeah, I am Catholic”.

Heck, you tell me….is Biden a Catholic in good standing?
My bishop says so. Forget Abortion…did know Joe and Jill were never married in the church? She is divorced with no annulment

So I have no clue about anything on Catholic issues. I am just blessed to have a good Mass to go to.

[Ken]

Ken, I totally understand where you are coming from. FWWIW My wife was in an StD program although she gave it up. I was a much better choice compared to theology. Anyway, my real comment is posting to non Catholics the actual statements rarely solves anything.

Heck, I try not to read them. For Catholicism is in some ways no different than Anabaptists churches.
I remember when the documents clearly said you cannot have alter girls or do first communion before first confession.
BUT I saw many parishes just chug right along doing what they want.

And I will stand by my earlier statement that this Pope and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith are now in full Vatican II mode in that you deliberately word everything so the liberals can do want they want and the neo cons can take solice that’s the words say no one should be doing this. New day,,,same song.

Forget new issues, all those folks that are good Catholics sitting in the pews every Sunday take a poll and only 40 pct tell you they believe in the Real Presence. So what is the answer to the question “Do Catholics believe…….”

And that does not include the confusion that every born Irishhor Italian who has not seen a priest since 8th grade answered any poll with “ Yeah, I am Catholic”.

Heck, you tell me….is Biden a Catholic in good standing?
My bishop says so. Forget Abortion…did know Joe and Jill were never married in the church? She is divorced with no annulment

So I have no clue about anything on Catholic issues. I am just blessed to have a good Mass to go to.

I'm not Catholic but my wife is (at least nominally). She was raised Catholic in Latin America, 12 years of Catholic school, Catholic university, etc. and her whole extended family is, of course, Catholic. These days we mostly only attend when my mother-in-law is visiting, which is not infrequently. So while I'm certainly not a Catholic theologian, I do have some familiarity with the faith.

There is a lot within Catholicism with which I disagree. I suspect our criticisms probably come from opposite sides. However, I'm not naive enough to think my opinion matters in the slightest. Regardless of the specific dogma of papal infallibility, I've been around Catholic circles enough to know that probably the majority of Catholics (at least those with whom I'm familiar, especially in Latin America) do not really want to debate or challenge Catholic teachings. They WANT the answers given to them and for the church through the pope to lead. That sort of subservience to doctrine is part of what distinguishes Catholicism from other faiths. It is what it is. Catholicism is not a democracy and were it to become one, it would no longer be recognizably Catholic.

[temporal1]

and it may just be me, not able to follow your train of thot

It's not just you, justme. Temp must be taking lessons from the politician who, when asked his favorite color, replied "plaid."

P.394 / Funny / Stewart plaid
viewtopic.php?t=47&start=3930

[JayP]

Do any rules in the RCC matter? Be they in the catechism or canon law?
For all the formality and officialness of things, my experience is local parishes, priests, bishops, and even Popes change or ignore things all the time.

In my own world, one Pope says the Pope has no authority to restrict the Tridentine Mass for all time and the next Pope does.
I remember no alter girls while watching alter girls all over the place

There are rules, and then there are rules. Lol

[Josh]

Do any rules in the RCC matter? Be they in the catechism or canon law?
For all the formality and officialness of things, my experience is local parishes, priests, bishops, and even Popes change or ignore things all the time.

In my own world, one Pope says the Pope has no authority to restrict the Tridentine Mass for all time and the next Pope does.
I remember no alter girls while watching alter girls all over the place

There are rules, and then there are rules. Lol

Seems this happens in many big church hierarchies. The United Methodists did the same thing. Powerful bishops ignored the rules they don’t like, and then enforced rules they did like against their enemies.

[temporal1]

Do any rules in the RCC matter? Be they in the catechism or canon law?
For all the formality and officialness of things, my experience is local parishes, priests, bishops, and even Popes change or ignore things all the time.

In my own world, one Pope says the Pope has no authority to restrict the Tridentine Mass for all time and the next Pope does.
I remember no alter girls while watching alter girls all over the place

There are rules, and then there are rules. Lol

Seems this happens in many big church hierarchies. The United Methodists did the same thing. Powerful bishops ignored the rules they don’t like, and then enforced rules they did like against their enemies.

Keep in mind, Martin Luther and Menno Simons did not want to leave the Catholic Church.
They honestly wanted corrections within, they weren’t the first. The desire to seek Truth in scriptures runs deep, the desire to seek Truth was present in the times of Jesus, before scriptures were recorded. Thomas/Didymus was there, wanting Truth, questioning.

The printing press was a, or the, game changer for their times.

The Printing Press
German goldsmith Johannes Gutenberg is credited with inventing the printing press around 1436, although he was far from the first to automate the book-printing process. Woodblock printing in China dates back to the 9th century and Korean bookmakers were printing with moveable metal type a century before Gutenberg.
https://www.history.com/news/printing-press-renaissance

^^Catholic monks could read, and had access to scriptures.
Can we imagine not being able to read? Not having access to scriptures?

The labels, Lutherans, and Mennonites, were derogatory, and dangerous. Can we today imagine the terror associated?

I mean this respectfully. The conversation is a bit of a moot point.

We're reliving the horrors of Vatican II all over again, in that the Pope and others in the church hierarchy deliberately make statements, that while perhaps technically acceptable and correct, allow the vagueness such that each side can claim victory.

The liberal side looks for small holes in the language and tries to drive a Mack truck through the holes.
Neo-cons find solace in the technical wording and use it to justify a bad Pope.
Trads tried to walk a fine line that allows them to focus on their Latin Mass and narrowly avoid becoming Sedevacanists.

It's a terrible time.
The truth simply is, there is a very bad Pope who is a die hard modernist.
Not to mention probably part of the lavender church mafia.

Personally, I'm thankful as a practicing Catholic, who goes to Latin Mass 90% of the time,
that I have Orthodox roots within our family as well.

Sometimes it is nice to just go a hide for the horrors you cannot influence.

This helps me. Thank you.
i’m not Catholic (or Anabaptist) (or EO) .. my daughter married a Catholic, she converted and they’re raising their daughter, now 16, as Catholic. [sort-of.] i won’t get into those weeds. Suffice it to say .. the child and i count her church as our church, i’m warmly welcomed there as a visitor. As so many today, we hobble along in confusion.

i pray for an inspired pope.
because of what i read, it appears Pope Francis has done everything possible to prevent that from happening. from ever happening.
i believe there are powerful+monied earthly forces right there in the mix.

i know God is greater-than. Much greater-than. i pray for God’s will. i’m sorry about the pope.
i remember the great hope surrounding him in 2013. my granddaughter was 6. she was in Catholic school, K-3rd grade, thank God.

for them to choose Catholicism was a big deal for me. i prayed about it. i was happy her great-grandmothers had passed away.
i decided to accept and respect the decision, i understand the disagreements. i wanted the child to know Jesus, to know scriptures. she does! i’m grateful for her experience, not perfect! - she knows Jesus and she knows scriptures. she reads. she believes.

i trust the Holy Spirit to protect and guide her.
(my prayer for all children+young people in the unholy world they must navigate.)

VOCATUS ATQUE NON VOCATUS DEUS ADERIT

i had 2 years of Latin in public school junior high school, when public schools were (excellent).
i.e., before they were hijacked by politicized strictly secular social engineering experiments. At that time, Latin was recommended/required for anyone interested in medicine. Latin was used in Catholic Church, my Protestant family wanted me to know nothing of Catholics. i eventually learned, my Catholic friends at school were taught Protestants were heretics, and worse.
That was a very odd feeling. i didn’t feel like a heretic.

Life on earth is quite an experience.

Welcome to the forum.
i’m looking forward to reading more from you.

[temporal1]

Video: A Lamp in the Dark
viewtopic.php?t=3138

^^The history isn’t kind to Catholics; i don’t believe it’s exaggerated or false.

[MaxPC]

Everyone's mileage varies. Definition: everyone's experiences and perceptions will vary. Do we spend hours arguing or do we reach out to a neighbor that may need help? Which do you think Jesus wants us to do?

[Josh]

Everyone's mileage varies.

What does that saying have to do with this?

Definition: everyone's experiences and perceptions will vary. Do we spend hours arguing or do we reach out to a neighbor that may need help? Which do you think Jesus wants us to do?

Actually, I believe there is only one church and one truth, one baptism, and one God and Father of all. This is an area where “everyone’s mileage doesn’t vary”.

[ohio jones]

VOCATUS ATQUE NON VOCATUS DEUS ADERIT

i had 2 years of Latin in public school junior high school, when public schools were (excellent).

Apparently they were busy teaching Latin and neglected (punctuation).