Good stock n commodity trading sites?

[Valerie]

Anyone going to answer PaulJds question he last posted?

[Valerie]

Do you think that is the message of that parable?

Not the "spiritual" but you can apply it to Josh saying interest isn't right, if you are a good steward of that which God provides & make more from it, not sure how that's wrong-

I'm not sure that parable was given as an instruction on finance, rather a teaching on diligence and faithfulness. Using it to craft a doctrine of finance that marginalizes Jesus explicit money teachings seems questionable.

I agree, but He did use money as an example for the parable, I'm not sure you can't apply it both ways, because he often used real, to convey spiritual.

[Josh]

Anyone going to answer PaulJds question he last posted?

You could make loans of silver or gold and expect repayment in them. In fact, there are contracts to do exactly that - deliver bullion to someone and then have them assign a future to you.

Considering the unimaginable wealth typical Mennonites have, I’m not sure why anyone is worrying about the American economic system. It’s created the wealthiest Anabaptists the world has ever seen.

[Josh]

Not the "spiritual" but you can apply it to Josh saying interest isn't right, if you are a good steward of that which God provides & make more from it, not sure how that's wrong-

I'm not sure that parable was given as an instruction on finance, rather a teaching on diligence and faithfulness. Using it to craft a doctrine of finance that marginalizes Jesus explicit money teachings seems questionable.

I agree, but He did use money as an example for the parable, I'm not sure you can't apply it both ways, because he often used real, to convey spiritual.

To quote an Orthodox person on that website I posted:

“ It needs discrimination:

Quote
But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.
Luke 6:35

Quote
Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest.
Matthew 25:27

There are different ontological statuses.”

and

“Quote from: Gamliel on January 17, 2017, 12:04:48 PM
‘Both times the word is used in the Parable of the Talents, where interest is used as a normal function of life. :-\’
Yes, but you must remember parabolic language also depicts Christ as a thief and as a bad steward.”

[Wade]

So since my simple topic has turned into things I did not intend, here is a few parts of reality:
The truth is that the monetary system is very different now than it was in Jesus' day.
A) To say you could not charge interest on 40 pieces of silver in Jesus day for a 50 year loan meant that at the end of the term you had to accept back the 40 pieces of silver.
B) To say you can not charge interest on 40 pieces of silver today for a 50 year loan means that at the end of the term you have to accept back 2 pieces of silver. Perhaps a few more if the loan has monthly payments and any payments received in first decade of the term of the loan will not be as far from values at the beginning, so say you get 10 or 15 pieces of silver in value for your return over the 50 year term. Would you see this as fair to the lender?
(50 years ago a silver dollar coin was $1, and $1 paper bank notes guaranteed silver exchange at any bank, but today an ounce silver coin is $20 worth of inflated devalued paper currency.)
Is it Christlike to go around telling people that they are not following Jesus if they do not accept a no interest policy that was taught in a hard money monetary system and apply it in a time of expansionist monetary policy, and accept getting 2 or 10 or 15 pieces of silver returned in 50 years or over the course of a 50 year term for the 40 pieces they loaned out today?
Is it accurate or fair for a christian today to insinuate that such a 0% loan today is right or on par with what the scriptures say on usury in their context of their "hard money" historical monetary system?

I wonder what our view of Christ's words are that, "it is more blessed to give than receive" and "woe to you who are rich," and "blessed are the poor" is when we are okay as Christian's to have more than others and using that advantage to gain from those that have less by charging them usury?

1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

[ken_sylvania]

So since my simple topic has turned into things I did not intend, here is a few parts of reality:
The truth is that the monetary system is very different now than it was in Jesus' day.
A) To say you could not charge interest on 40 pieces of silver in Jesus day for a 50 year loan meant that at the end of the term you had to accept back the 40 pieces of silver.
B) To say you can not charge interest on 40 pieces of silver today for a 50 year loan means that at the end of the term you have to accept back 2 pieces of silver. Perhaps a few more if the loan has monthly payments and any payments received in first decade of the term of the loan will not be as far from values at the beginning, so say you get 10 or 15 pieces of silver in value for your return over the 50 year term. Would you see this as fair to the lender?
(50 years ago a silver dollar coin was $1, and $1 paper bank notes guaranteed silver exchange at any bank, but today an ounce silver coin is $20 worth of inflated devalued paper currency.)
Is it Christlike to go around telling people that they are not following Jesus if they do not accept a no interest policy that was taught in a hard money monetary system and apply it in a time of expansionist monetary policy, and accept getting 2 or 10 or 15 pieces of silver returned in 50 years or over the course of a 50 year term for the 40 pieces they loaned out today?
Is it accurate or fair for a christian today to insinuate that such a 0% loan today is right or on par with what the scriptures say on usury in their context of their "hard money" historical monetary system?

So, if you loaned me money and then the price of gold went down, would you pay me interest on the money then, or how would that work?

Or, in general, if we had a period of deflation, would you say that the lender should charge negative interest so that what he gets paid back is worth the same as he lent?

[ohio jones]

Considering the unimaginable wealth typical Mennonites have, I’m not sure why anyone is worrying about the American economic system. It’s created the wealthiest Anabaptists the world has ever seen.

The superlative is not entirely justified. The technological conveniences may not compare to current North American standards, but at times the Dutch and Russian Mennonites had significant wealth relative to their peers. It should be noted of course that those were not generally times of great spiritual zeal.

[PaulD]

1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

So do you know of anyone who loans large sums long term at 0% interest to random people?
Do christians who charge interest not help those in need?

?

So, if you loaned me money and then the price of gold went down, would you pay me interest on the money then, or how would that work?

Or, in general, if we had a period of deflation, would you say that the lender should charge negative interest so that what he gets paid back is worth the same as he lent?

To answer your question:
If you look at long term charts, yes prices have a 7 to 10 year cycle. But the bottom of each 7 year cycle is significantly more US$ than the previous bottom, just like the high of each 7 year cycle is significantly more US$ than the previous high. And it is because of monetary expansionist policy(currency devaluation).
What you are saying might could fairly apply in a few short term situations over the last century.. But not long term. For the past. Things could change, but I think the Fed is so desparate to keep things going that they would throw us into hyper-inflation to counteract deflation. That is partly why the new high for stocks is 30,000 when before 2008 it was 14,500 and the 2008 crash went down below 8,000 but it would be all the more harder to get that low again partly because of an expanded monetary supply.
----
I can point to people who have helped many with bad credit obtain housing by giving them large lnterest bearing realestate loans and helped them through times of hardship with months of nonpayment.
Can yall point to people who have helped many with bad credit obtain housing by giving them large 0% interest realestate loans and helped them through times of hardship with months of nonpayment?
---'
How are people of yalls persuation who blanket-condemn chargers of interest as people who close up their heart of compassion to those in need able to stay out of Matt 23:23 type condemnation?

[Josh]

The Bible says to lend, expecting nothing in return - not even principal, let alone interest.

[PaulD]

The Bible says to lend, expecting nothing in return - not even principal, let alone interest.

True.. Jesus said that... And to give and whosoever asks turn thou not away.. What did Jesus actually mean? Is there balancing or guiding verses or principles to that? Does Jesus tell us to lend everything we work for to any random drughead who will use it to overdose or go to the casino? Or if we tell them no are we conveniently ignoring or explaining away what Jesus literally said or meant?
We do have pretty good incentive to find a loophole around these things dont we? Is there a legitimate loophole or not?