briar patch

[Szdfan]

When a few people celebrated CK's death you assigned that attitude to "half the country." When a person claiming Christianity does a despicable thing you can conveniently deny any connection to Christianity.

Christianity, as an ideology, does not call for assassinating its opponents. (There are some fringe groups that do.)

I would suggest that Christianity, as an ideology, also does not call for executing criminals. I would also suggest that Christianity, as an ideology, is neither right, left or center, politically speaking.

There is a special irony for Christians to call for the execution of criminals considering the origins of the faith. The experiences of Jesus, the apostles and the Early Church in Acts suggests that the authority of the state to execute people doesn’t guarantee that those executions are just.

[Soloist]

I see the Christian position is to hope all men repent and this is foundational for nonresistance as a belief rather than just obedience

[GaryK]

I see the Christian position is to hope all men repent and this is foundational for nonresistance as a belief rather than just obedience

Well said.

[JohnH]

I would suggest that Christianity, as an ideology, also does not call for executing criminals. I would also suggest that Christianity, as an ideology, is neither right, left or center, politically speaking.

The Bible, as a book, calls quite frequently for executing criminals for a variety of offences.

In the NT, God seems to take the duties upon himself directly, from Ananias and Sapphira being struck dead to the mass slaughters prophesied in Revelation of the wicked. The takeaway is that, as Christians, we can put the down the executioner's sword and leave it up to God (and his appointed governments) to do it instead.

[Wesleyb]

When a few people celebrated CK's death you assigned that attitude to "half the country." When a person claiming Christianity does a despicable thing you can conveniently deny any connection to Christianity.

Christianity, as an ideology, does not call for assassinating its opponents. (There are some fringe groups that do.)

Leftism, as an ideology, does. Centrists do not, which is why I said "leftists". Centrism also seems to be going extinct in America.

I was quite surprised to hear the reaction to the assassination of that health-care CEO in broad daylight in NYC. A significant portion of the country supported it. That is simply where we are now.

I'm sure there are some on the right wing who are also moving in this direction, which is not a positive development either.

This data was assembled from multiple sources:

U.S. adults:
27% expressed sympathy (moderate or significant) for Luigi Mangione.
12% expressed support for the decision to murder UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.
17% to 23% (different polls) viewed Mangione favorably overall in national public opinion polls.

U.S. votesrs:
68% of overall voters considered the killing unacceptable.
32% unacceptable.

It's worse amongst young people:

Age 18-29: 41% said acceptable; 28% or 39% said directly sympathetic
College students: 50% viewed Mangione "favorable".
Age 50+: 5% or 10% approved or supported.

And...

Support amongst those who identifying as "liberal" was 28% versus of those identifying as "conservative" was 5%.

To be clear, amongst conservatives, that's 5% more than it should be.

Are you using the terms "leftist" and "liberal" as synonyms? In my mind they are not. How many people who identify as liberals would also identify with the term "leftist"?

Those numbers are discouraging. Although depending on how the "sympathy" question was asked, I might have answered yes. I can feel sympathy for a person without supporting their actions. I wonder what the percentages would be if asked about the ICE killings? I know that's different than premeditated murder but I would think the heart attitude of those supporting it would be about the same. "Good riddance to that greedy CEO, that obnoxious protester, that religious bigot, that law-breaking 'illegal'"

[JohnH]

Are you using the terms "leftist" and "liberal" as synonyms? In my mind they are not. How many people who identify as liberals would also identify with the term "leftist"?

I was summarising the results of the survey. "Liberal" obviously is a much broader term than "leftist".

Those numbers are discouraging. Although depending on how the "sympathy" question was asked, I might have answered yes. I can feel sympathy for a person without supporting their actions. I wonder what the percentages would be if asked about the ICE killings? I know that's different than premeditated murder but I would think the heart attitude of those supporting it would be about the same. "Good riddance to that greedy CEO, that obnoxious protester, that religious bigot, that law-breaking 'illegal'"

I strongly support the U.S. government being able to enforce its border including detaining aliens who enter without inspection and conducting removals of the.

I have never once thought "Good riddance to that obnoxious protester" or "Good riddance to that law-breaking person who entered without inspection", particularly if they got killed, although I would pause to think they could have kept their life if they'd decided to avoid the bad situation. And I suspect most others who support the U.S. simply enforcing its own borders would feel the same way. Maybe a few feel otherwise and have bad feelings on the issue. Perhaps there are surveys like the ones I posted above that would say more.

[Wesleyb]

I strongly support the U.S. government being able to enforce its border including detaining aliens who enter without inspection and conducting removals of the.

And I support the government making and enforcing laws about price gouging and monopolies in health care.

I have never once thought "Good riddance to that obnoxious protester" or "Good riddance to that law-breaking person who entered without inspection", particularly if they got killed, although I would pause to think they could have kept their life if they'd decided to avoid the bad situation. And I suspect most others who support the U.S. simply enforcing its own borders would feel the same way. Maybe a few feel otherwise and have bad feelings on the issue. Perhaps there are surveys like the ones I posted above that would say more.

I didn't expect that you felt that way, but I'm pretty sure that among the people I'm around I have heard that attitude about the ICE killing more than the others. Of course I realize that my experience is hardly a scientific survey.

[GaryK]

I would suggest that Christianity, as an ideology, also does not call for executing criminals. I would also suggest that Christianity, as an ideology, is neither right, left or center, politically speaking.

The Bible, as a book, calls quite frequently for executing criminals for a variety of offences.

We're talking about Christianity as an ideology, which is NT. I don't think you will find any NT scriptures that support Christians calling for any executions.

In the NT, God seems to take the duties upon himself directly, from Ananias and Sapphira being struck dead to the mass slaughters prophesied in Revelation of the wicked. The takeaway is that, as Christians, we can put the down the executioner's sword and leave it up to God (and his appointed governments) to do it instead.

Agreed, but that is different than Christians calling for the executions of criminals.

[JohnH]

We're talking about Christianity as an ideology, which is NT. I don't think you will find any NT scriptures that support Christians calling for any executions.

In the NT, God seems to take the duties upon himself directly, from Ananias and Sapphira being struck dead to the mass slaughters prophesied in Revelation of the wicked. The takeaway is that, as Christians, we can put the down the executioner's sword and leave it up to God (and his appointed governments) to do it instead.

Agreed, but that is different than Christians calling for the executions of criminals.

Does the NT teach that Christians should call for leniency for criminals, particular for the type of crimes that are typically capital crimes?

[GaryK]

We're talking about Christianity as an ideology, which is NT. I don't think you will find any NT scriptures that support Christians calling for any executions.

In the NT, God seems to take the duties upon himself directly, from Ananias and Sapphira being struck dead to the mass slaughters prophesied in Revelation of the wicked. The takeaway is that, as Christians, we can put the down the executioner's sword and leave it up to God (and his appointed governments) to do it instead.

Agreed, but that is different than Christians calling for the executions of criminals.

Does the NT teach that Christians should call for leniency for criminals, particular for the type of crimes that are typically capital crimes?

Jesus: Mt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy. (NKJV)