Amish World's Healthiest Children

[Josh]

Yet the evidence says that groups who regularly have their children barefoot around horse and bovine manure have better health outcomes.

Where is this evidence and is it based on South America or the south region of USA?

The evidence I’ve seen is poor in those regions with multiple health problems from parasites.

Amish children have better health than their non-Amish neighbours. There is simply not a health risk to being barefoot, at least in Amish communities.

[Soloist]

Amish children have better health than their non-Amish neighbours. There is simply not a health risk to being barefoot, at least in Amish communities.

So… your evidence is anecdotal based on individual contacts from the few southern Amish communities? Or are you speaking of your larger quantities of personal contacts from the northern Amish?

And have you actually asked these questions about hookworms? Generally people don’t just volunteer this information

[Ken]

The AP actually fact checked the claims in the original article. I underlined a couple of key points: https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-a ... 6029928165

CLAIM: A new, comprehensive study has found zero cases of Amish children with cancer, diabetes, autism or other serious medical conditions and few deaths from COVID-19 because Amish people don’t get vaccinated.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. There’s no new research supporting the claims. Experts who study Amish communities say most members have some level of vaccination and that research has shown significant deaths from COVID in the communities. They also say studies have documented cases of autism, diabetes and cancer among the Amish, albeit at lower rates in some cases than the broader population and for reasons that are unrelated to their vaccination status.

THE FACTS: Social media users are pointing to Amish communities as proof that vaccinations not only don’t work, but are harmful to our health.

Many are sharing a screenshot of a website article with the headline, “New Study Finds Zero Amish Children Diagnosed with Cancer, Diabetes or Autism.”

“A new comprehensive study has found that no Amish children have been diagnosed with chronic conditions, which widely impact the rest of America,” the first sentence of the story reads, underneath a picture of Amish children riding a traditional horse drawn carriage.

The Amish are a conservative Christian group that shuns many modern technologies, including electric and gas-powered machinery. They’re largely concentrated in the Midwest and East Coast, including in Pennsylvania’s Lancaster County.

“No vaccines or processed food means no mental illness or diseases?,” wrote one Instagram user in a widely shared post that included the screenshot. “Who would have thought!?”

Other posts claimed Amish people died of COVID at a rate “90 times lower than the rest of America” because they weren’t vaccinated.

But there’s no new study supporting that figure or the notion that the Amish are immune to serious medical conditions because of vaccine reluctance.

Instead, the purported study is merely anecdotal evidence put forward by Steven Kirsch, a former Silicon Valley executive-turned anti-vaccine activist, during a Pennsylvania state senate hearing last month that took a critical view of the COVID-19 vaccine and inoculations generally.

In his testimony, Kirsch claimed that he’d spoken with Amish people in Lancaster County and learned that only five community members died of the coronavirus. That, he said, led him to conclude that the Amish “died at a rate 90 times lower than the infection fatality rate of the United States of America.”

Kirsch goes on to claim, without citing evidence, that Amish children also don’t suffer from cancer, diabetes, autism, autoimmune disease and a range of other ailments.

“You just don’t find any of these chronic diseases in the Amish,” he said.

Katrine Wallace, an epidemiologist at the University of Illinois at Chicago’s School of Public Health, was among those that took to Instagram this week to push back at the baseless claims.

“There is no ‘study’,” she wrote in a follow up email to The Associated Press. “It’s just Steve Kirsch saying he couldn’t find any unvaccinated kids with autism in that community.”

Kirsch, responding after this story was published, confirmed he’d produced no such study.

“It was an informal effort on my behalf using multiple methods to try and uncover what the health effects are for the Amish who are unvaccinated,” he said in a phone interview, noting that his efforts included offering a $2,500 reward for information about Amish COVID deaths on Twitter.

Wallace and other Amish experts, meanwhile, cited years of published, peer-reviewed research on the communities, which are found in more than 30 states and combined represent more than 360,000 people.

A 2011 study in Pediatrics, for example, found only 14% of Amish people surveyed didn’t vaccinate their kids at all, Wallace noted.

“They do vaccinate at a lower rate than the general population, but they are far from an ‘unvaccinated’ population,” she said.

Alan Shuldiner, founder of the Amish Research Clinic at the University of Maryland, said it’s also not true that Amish children don’t have diabetes.

Amish children tend to have lower incidence of the chronic ailment than non-Amish children, but it’s not because of vaccination — it’s due to a more physically demanding lifestyle that lends itself to leaner body types, he said, citing a 2013 study published in Diabetes Care that he co-authored.

Braxton Mitchell, an epidemiologist at the University of Maryland School of Medicine who has also studied Amish communities, said autism does occur among members, despite claims suggesting otherwise.

But he said it is a challenge to gather reliable data on the subject because autism and other related conditions require clinical assessments and expert diagnosis, which Amish families may not seek out.

Indeed a 2010 paper from the International Society for Autism Research found autism was less prevalent in Amish communities than the U.S. overall, but that further study was needed to determine how “cultural norms and customs” played a role in the numbers.

Recent research also suggests Amish communities weren’t completely insulated from the ravages of COVID, said Steven Nolt, an Amish expert at Elizabethtown College in Pennsylvania.

A study published in June in the Journal of Religion and Health found excess death rates among Amish groups rose at a similar pace as the nation during the early phase of the pandemic, and then outpaced it as death rates otherwise dropped nationwide.

Going back further, research published in 1988 in Social Science and Medicine found Amish communities have unusually high rates of breast cancer and juvenile leukemia but relatively low rates of cervical cancer, noted Mark Louden, an Amish expert at the University of Wisconsin in Madison.

The study also examined incidences of stomach, colon, rectum, urinary bladder and prostate cancer among Amish communities and other similar religious enclaves.

“In a nutshell, this claim is not supported by the evidence,” Louden wrote in an email. “While Amish, including children, are overall healthier by many measures than their non-Amish counterparts, that is due to a combination of lifestyle and genetics, not their low vaccination rates.”

Kirsch, in response, dismissed the recent study on COVID deaths among the Amish as “fraudulent,” citing as evidence a critique by another Substack blogger who identifies as a musician and teacher.

But Kirsch also acknowledged that just because his efforts had not turned up any examples of cancer, diabetes or autism among Amish children, that didn’t mean they didn’t exist.

[ken_sylvania]

CLAIM: A new, comprehensive study has found zero cases of Amish children with cancer, diabetes, autism or other serious medical conditions and few deaths from COVID-19 because Amish people don’t get vaccinated.

Reminds me of one of those quotes from our very own Stevie Wonder - "You spare parts, bud?"

[RZehr]

The AP actually fact checked the claims in the original article. I underlined a couple of key points: https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-a ... 6029928165

CLAIM: A new, comprehensive study has found zero cases of Amish children with cancer, diabetes, autism or other serious medical conditions and few deaths from COVID-19 because Amish people don’t get vaccinated.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. There’s no new research supporting the claims. Experts who study Amish communities say most members have some level of vaccination and that research has shown significant deaths from COVID in the communities. They also say studies have documented cases of autism, diabetes and cancer among the Amish, albeit at lower rates in some cases than the broader population and for reasons that are unrelated to their vaccination status.

THE FACTS: Social media users are pointing to Amish communities as proof that vaccinations not only don’t work, but are harmful to our health.

Many are sharing a screenshot of a website article with the headline, “New Study Finds Zero Amish Children Diagnosed with Cancer, Diabetes or Autism.”

“A new comprehensive study has found that no Amish children have been diagnosed with chronic conditions, which widely impact the rest of America,” the first sentence of the story reads, underneath a picture of Amish children riding a traditional horse drawn carriage.

The Amish are a conservative Christian group that shuns many modern technologies, including electric and gas-powered machinery. They’re largely concentrated in the Midwest and East Coast, including in Pennsylvania’s Lancaster County.

“No vaccines or processed food means no mental illness or diseases?,” wrote one Instagram user in a widely shared post that included the screenshot. “Who would have thought!?”

Other posts claimed Amish people died of COVID at a rate “90 times lower than the rest of America” because they weren’t vaccinated.

But there’s no new study supporting that figure or the notion that the Amish are immune to serious medical conditions because of vaccine reluctance.

Instead, the purported study is merely anecdotal evidence put forward by Steven Kirsch, a former Silicon Valley executive-turned anti-vaccine activist, during a Pennsylvania state senate hearing last month that took a critical view of the COVID-19 vaccine and inoculations generally.

In his testimony, Kirsch claimed that he’d spoken with Amish people in Lancaster County and learned that only five community members died of the coronavirus. That, he said, led him to conclude that the Amish “died at a rate 90 times lower than the infection fatality rate of the United States of America.”

Kirsch goes on to claim, without citing evidence, that Amish children also don’t suffer from cancer, diabetes, autism, autoimmune disease and a range of other ailments.

“You just don’t find any of these chronic diseases in the Amish,” he said.

Katrine Wallace, an epidemiologist at the University of Illinois at Chicago’s School of Public Health, was among those that took to Instagram this week to push back at the baseless claims.

“There is no ‘study’,” she wrote in a follow up email to The Associated Press. “It’s just Steve Kirsch saying he couldn’t find any unvaccinated kids with autism in that community.”

Kirsch, responding after this story was published, confirmed he’d produced no such study.

“It was an informal effort on my behalf using multiple methods to try and uncover what the health effects are for the Amish who are unvaccinated,” he said in a phone interview, noting that his efforts included offering a $2,500 reward for information about Amish COVID deaths on Twitter.

Wallace and other Amish experts, meanwhile, cited years of published, peer-reviewed research on the communities, which are found in more than 30 states and combined represent more than 360,000 people.

A 2011 study in Pediatrics, for example, found only 14% of Amish people surveyed didn’t vaccinate their kids at all, Wallace noted.

“They do vaccinate at a lower rate than the general population, but they are far from an ‘unvaccinated’ population,” she said.

Alan Shuldiner, founder of the Amish Research Clinic at the University of Maryland, said it’s also not true that Amish children don’t have diabetes.

Amish children tend to have lower incidence of the chronic ailment than non-Amish children, but it’s not because of vaccination — it’s due to a more physically demanding lifestyle that lends itself to leaner body types, he said, citing a 2013 study published in Diabetes Care that he co-authored.

Braxton Mitchell, an epidemiologist at the University of Maryland School of Medicine who has also studied Amish communities, said autism does occur among members, despite claims suggesting otherwise.

But he said it is a challenge to gather reliable data on the subject because autism and other related conditions require clinical assessments and expert diagnosis, which Amish families may not seek out.

Indeed a 2010 paper from the International Society for Autism Research found autism was less prevalent in Amish communities than the U.S. overall, but that further study was needed to determine how “cultural norms and customs” played a role in the numbers.

Recent research also suggests Amish communities weren’t completely insulated from the ravages of COVID, said Steven Nolt, an Amish expert at Elizabethtown College in Pennsylvania.

A study published in June in the Journal of Religion and Health found excess death rates among Amish groups rose at a similar pace as the nation during the early phase of the pandemic, and then outpaced it as death rates otherwise dropped nationwide.

Going back further, research published in 1988 in Social Science and Medicine found Amish communities have unusually high rates of breast cancer and juvenile leukemia but relatively low rates of cervical cancer, noted Mark Louden, an Amish expert at the University of Wisconsin in Madison.

The study also examined incidences of stomach, colon, rectum, urinary bladder and prostate cancer among Amish communities and other similar religious enclaves.

“In a nutshell, this claim is not supported by the evidence,” Louden wrote in an email. “While Amish, including children, are overall healthier by many measures than their non-Amish counterparts, that is due to a combination of lifestyle and genetics, not their low vaccination rates.”

Kirsch, in response, dismissed the recent study on COVID deaths among the Amish as “fraudulent,” citing as evidence a critique by another Substack blogger who identifies as a musician and teacher.

But Kirsch also acknowledged that just because his efforts had not turned up any examples of cancer, diabetes or autism among Amish children, that didn’t mean they didn’t exist.

A lie travels around the world before the truth can get its shoes on.

Take a look at all the people and energy it took to refute a simple claim someone made. The economics are all out of kelter. False claims just cannot be all chased down and refuted one by one, the cost is to great. It’s like shooting down a $1,000 drone with a $1,000,000 missile - it’s not sustainable.

This is why it is so much easier to believe people who have proven to value facts and honesty - because none of us have the time to fact check everything ourselves. And why should we all repeat the same verification anyway? “Do you own research”? Why, if there are already better equipped people doing it?

[Josh]

Amish children have better health than their non-Amish neighbours. There is simply not a health risk to being barefoot, at least in Amish communities.

So… your evidence is anecdotal based on individual contacts from the few southern Amish communities? Or are you speaking of your larger quantities of personal contacts from the northern Amish?

And have you actually asked these questions about hookworms? Generally people don’t just volunteer this information

I’m simply looking at overall health. Overall, Amish communities do better in basically every metric. Due to that, I would be hesitant to condemn their lifestyle as unhealthy, considering they get better outcomes than my demographic and others do.

[Soloist]

I’m simply looking at overall health. Overall, Amish communities do better in basically every metric. Due to that, I would be hesitant to condemn their lifestyle as unhealthy, considering they get better outcomes than my demographic and others do.

That’s what I thought. Hookworms are less common today, but Amish communities in the south would be at higher risk due to their waste management. We still see cases and it’s highly linked to barefoot walking in areas with infected waste.

[Josh]

I’m simply looking at overall health. Overall, Amish communities do better in basically every metric. Due to that, I would be hesitant to condemn their lifestyle as unhealthy, considering they get better outcomes than my demographic and others do.

That’s what I thought. Hookworms are less common today, but Amish communities in the south would be at higher risk due to their waste management. We still see cases and it’s highly linked to barefoot walking in areas with infected waste.

Perhaps Amish don’t live in complete filth and walk barefoot across human faeces on the ground.

[Soloist]

Perhaps Amish don’t live in complete filth and walk barefoot across human faeces on the ground.

Perhaps you haven’t considered a few points in this “argument”
1: Some Amish spread human manure on crop fields which may or may not be treated.
2: are you aware of which animals hookworms infest?
Perhaps you could educate yourself a little on the history of hookworm management in the southern United States and read this which provides a basic overview… https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2268732/

[Ken]

Amish children have better health than their non-Amish neighbours. There is simply not a health risk to being barefoot, at least in Amish communities.

So… your evidence is anecdotal based on individual contacts from the few southern Amish communities? Or are you speaking of your larger quantities of personal contacts from the northern Amish?

And have you actually asked these questions about hookworms? Generally people don’t just volunteer this information

I’m simply looking at overall health. Overall, Amish communities do better in basically every metric. Due to that, I would be hesitant to condemn their lifestyle as unhealthy, considering they get better outcomes than my demographic and others do.

every metric?

in looking up Amish health I came across a detailed study showing how Amish children have poor dental health on average, probably because they don't go to the dentist much and don't tend to drink water on fluoridated municipal water systems: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5347278/