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Every once in a while, I am amused by some of the songs Plain Anabaptists sing.

A few years ago I was in one of the most conservative Anabaptist congregations for a hymn sing.
We sang the song, "Oh, come Angel Band come and around me stand. Oh bear me away on your snowy wings to my immortal home."
I watched as the three solemn ministers, sitting on an elevated platform at the front of the church, sang these words over and over. Had this song not been included in 1927 Church Hymnal, and been sung in their church for nearly a hundred years, it could easily have been used in a sermon illustration as an example of the "light and frivolous" and "doctrinally erroneous" songs that Christians should not be singing.

There are other songs about ships and trains that are sung very solemnly by conservative Anabaptists.
Life is like a Mountain Railroad, If on a Quiet Sea toward Heaven we Calmly Sail, Jesus Savior, Pilot Me. etc.

I can't imagine conservative Anabaptists singing songs in their Sunday church gatherings that make analogies to semi-trucks, computer networking, PC's, etc. (just as Old Orders probably can't imagine singing songs about ships and trains in their Sunday church gatherings.)

Since we are in the “Christmas season”, what about Christmas carols? Many Christmas carols are “doctrinally erroneous” and the tradition is of pagan rather than Christian origin. Do the plain churches that you are familiar with sing Christmas carols? Or do they avoid them like the Puritans and Scottish Calvinists did in centuries past?

And since when are trains and ships problematic? How did the Amish and Mennonites get to North America if not by ship and train?

There is something about "Onward Christian Soldiers" that makes me uncomfortable every time we sing it. Somehow I feel I should be at a Salvation Army church when I sing that.

Ernie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:38 pm Every once in a while, I am amused by some of the songs Plain Anabaptists sing.

A few years ago I was in one of the most conservative Anabaptist congregations for a hymn sing.
We sang the song, "Oh, come Angel Band come and around me stand. Oh bear me away on your snowy wings to my immortal home."
I watched as the three solemn ministers, sitting on an elevated platform at the front of the church, sang these words over and over. Had this song not been included in 1927 Church Hymnal, and been sung in their church for nearly a hundred years, it could easily have been used in a sermon illustration as an example of the "light and frivolous" and "doctrinally erroneous" songs that Christians should not be singing.

There are other songs about ships and trains that are sung very solemnly by conservative Anabaptists.
Life is like a Mountain Railroad, If on a Quiet Sea toward Heaven we Calmly Sail, Jesus Savior, Pilot Me. etc.

I can't imagine conservative Anabaptists singing songs in their Sunday church gatherings that make analogies to semi-trucks, computer networking, PC's, etc. (just as Old Orders probably can't imagine singing songs about ships and trains in their Sunday church gatherings.)

I love "Angel Band" and some of these old songs that are rooted in the lived experiences of the poor, suffering people who hoped for an escape from their suffering. Some of these songs like "The Little Brown Church in the Vale" are so sugary sentimental that they may cause diabetes, but I also really like "In the Sweet By and By."

I really like what's called American roots music and its in these old songs that I can catch glimpses of the past. These songs are like a memory.

Szdfan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:59 pm

Ernie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:38 pm Every once in a while, I am amused by some of the songs Plain Anabaptists sing.

A few years ago I was in one of the most conservative Anabaptist congregations for a hymn sing.
We sang the song, "Oh, come Angel Band come and around me stand. Oh bear me away on your snowy wings to my immortal home."
I watched as the three solemn ministers, sitting on an elevated platform at the front of the church, sang these words over and over. Had this song not been included in 1927 Church Hymnal, and been sung in their church for nearly a hundred years, it could easily have been used in a sermon illustration as an example of the "light and frivolous" and "doctrinally erroneous" songs that Christians should not be singing.

There are other songs about ships and trains that are sung very solemnly by conservative Anabaptists.
Life is like a Mountain Railroad, If on a Quiet Sea toward Heaven we Calmly Sail, Jesus Savior, Pilot Me. etc.

I can't imagine conservative Anabaptists singing songs in their Sunday church gatherings that make analogies to semi-trucks, computer networking, PC's, etc. (just as Old Orders probably can't imagine singing songs about ships and trains in their Sunday church gatherings.)

I love "Angel Band" and some of these old songs that are rooted in the lived experiences of the poor, suffering people who hoped for an escape from their suffering. Some of these songs like "The Little Brown Church in the Vale" are so sugary sentimental that they may cause diabetes, but I also really like "In the Sweet By and By."

I really like what's called American roots music and its in these old songs that I can catch glimpses of the past. These songs are like a memory.

Angel Band is a pretty mainstream gospel song. You can find versions of it done by nearly every big country/gospel singer from Johnny Cash to Loretta Lynn and Dolly Parton

Ernie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:38 pm Every once in a while, I am amused by some of the songs Plain Anabaptists sing.

A few years ago I was in one of the most conservative Anabaptist congregations for a hymn sing.
We sang the song, "Oh, come Angel Band come and around me stand. Oh bear me away on your snowy wings to my immortal home."
I watched as the three solemn ministers, sitting on an elevated platform at the front of the church, sang these words over and over. Had this song not been included in 1927 Church Hymnal, and been sung in their church for nearly a hundred years, it could easily have been used in a sermon illustration as an example of the "light and frivolous" and "doctrinally erroneous" songs that Christians should not be singing.

There are other songs about ships and trains that are sung very solemnly by conservative Anabaptists.
Life is like a Mountain Railroad, If on a Quiet Sea toward Heaven we Calmly Sail, Jesus Savior, Pilot Me. etc.

I can't imagine conservative Anabaptists singing songs in their Sunday church gatherings that make analogies to semi-trucks, computer networking, PC's, etc. (just as Old Orders probably can't imagine singing songs about ships and trains in their Sunday church gatherings.)

Then there's the one about the "prayer wheel turning". (Eastern religion reference.)

But the modern one that really "slays me" is the one about "my lighthouse". The author didn't know that you are supposed to stay away from the lighthouse - it's a warning, not a summons.... But the old "Camp Meeting songs" had some problems, too, so not just the modern ones, like you said.

Edit: And oh, why so many about being out on the ocean? We sang them with great gusto ---- out on the Great Plains, where very few of us had ever even seen the ocean, let alone been out on one in a storm. "Be very sure your anchor holds, and grips the Solid Rock."

I can't stand Hold the fort...

http://www.civilwarsignals.org/1st/myer ... efort.html
http://www.civilwarsignals.org/1st/myer/holdthefort.pdf

Comparing Sherman to Jesus....

Neto wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:19 pmBut the modern one that really "slays me" is the one about "my lighthouse". The author didn't know that you are supposed to stay away from the lighthouse - it's a warning, not a summons....

That is a common misperception that most people seem to have in this day and age. The purpose of lighthouses is not to warn of hazards. But to provide navigation points (light your way). Each lighthouse has a unique light pattern (color and flash pattern) that makes it uniquely identifiable. If you can see two different lighthouses at sea you can pinpoint your exact location on the ocean within a few hundred yards using triangulation.

On most navigable coastlines, lighthouses were spaced close enough so that you can see more than one light from sea. If you can see one lighthouse, measure it's precise direction on the horizon in degrees, and identify it's unique light pattern. Then you can find the same lighthouse on your chart and draw a reciprocal line from that light out to sea on your chart then you know your position is somewhere on that line. If you can find a second lighthouse and repeat the process then your exact position is where your two lines cross. This is how ships navigated coastlines at night in the pre-GPS and pre-Loran era.

So in effect, lighthouses are guideposts to keep you on the correct path in the dark. Ships captains entering complicated harbors like New York Harbor at night in the pre-modern era would meticulously navigate directly to their berth and stay in the correct navigation channel using lighthouses.

Ken wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:55 pm Since we are in the “Christmas season”, what about Christmas carols? Many Christmas carols are “doctrinally erroneous” and the tradition is of pagan rather than Christian origin. Do the plain churches that you are familiar with sing Christmas carols? Or do they avoid them like the Puritans and Scottish Calvinists did in centuries past?

And since when are trains and ships problematic? How did the Amish and Mennonites get to North America if not by ship and train?

I'm not much of a music person. That said, I do enjoy both traditional hymns as well as *some* of the newer contemporary stuff (7-11 songs, anyone?). Ken makes a good point- do we "read into" things too much?

(Anything with trains in it is okay in my book )

Ken wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:55 pm Since we are in the “Christmas season”, what about Christmas carols? Many Christmas carols are “doctrinally erroneous” and the tradition is of pagan rather than Christian origin. Do the plain churches that you are familiar with sing Christmas carols? Or do they avoid them like the Puritans and Scottish Calvinists did in centuries past?

A few of the more thoughtful CA's will call attention to the doctrinal errors, but keep on singing them because there is no way that you are going to get the church to alter or eliminate the songs in their hymnbooks that have doctrinal errors. Those who call attention to these errors are likely to keep defending their constituency, even if there is nothing they can do about the songs.

Ken wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:55 pm And since when are trains and ships problematic? How did the Amish and Mennonites get to North America if not by ship and train?

The point I am making is that conservative Anabaptists are ok with singing worship songs with analogies to dated technology, but not ok with singing songs about trucks or computers.

Old Orders may sing about ships and trains outside of church, but not during their formal worship.