Poll: Iridology

[DrWojo]

Finally, somebody exhibited a decent I.Q. posting on this thread! Thank you, John Hurt.

I’m not sure we should get into the business of assessing IQs of posters in this thread; however, as someone who is a semi-professional in such line of work and associates with actual professionals, I am sorry to assert that the people who create and research IQ tests would report that low IQ people are more likely to believe in things like iridology or other things not generally accepted by society.

This by no means it is either good or bad. I’m just pointing out that calling people’s posts low IQ and high IQ is either disingenuous or misinformed.

Your post just got me wondering whether any iridologists can possibly determine IQ’s by looking at a person’s eyes?

[ken_sylvania]

.....Your "opinions" are based on what you have read from documents and internet sites the mainstream medical establishment has created to promote their own procedures, which is how they make their obscene profits. You are like a child that repeats whatever their parents believe. You don't have a background for your opinions, as your opinions are not based on your own experience....

Do you have any first-hand experience with all of the documents and internet sites that all of us have read, that you can so confidently make this assertion? How do you even know that the mainstream medical establishment makes obscene profits? Firsthand experience?
Methinks you may be doing exactly what you are castigating the other posters on this thread for doing, namely accepting sources you consider reliable and trustworthy as factual.

[silentreader]

My concern with some of these things that do work, are not that they work. If they didn't work, it would be of no concern to me. My question always is - what power are we submitting to when they do work?

I am over 60 and take 5 or 6 prescription medications. Do they work? My blood pressure is controlled; my cholesterol is under control. Would there be other more "natural" ways to do the same thing? Probably! If I could fully trust in God, my blood pressure would not be an issue. I am human - just as human as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; just as human as David and Solomon.

Careful, a friend who is 63 told me the other day he has taken high blood pressure medication for nearly 15 years. It turns out that over time they found out this drug is not good for prolonged use but his doctor continued to give him the prescription. It was only recently after his doctor retired that his new doctor noticed this big problem. Now my friend's liver and kidneys are shutting down from following his doctors advice... I can't recall the name of the drug.

Yes, you're right, my mother was on several blood pressure meds for probably half her life, and she did die then of CHF. She was coherent up to the last, I had a good conversation with her the evening before her passing. She was still about 3 months short of her 96th birthday when she died.

[DrWojo]

This may be slightly off the topic of iridology, but it goes along with people accusing others of making unsubstantiated claims and speculations when it comes to medical-related topics. People tend to reveal they place their faith and beliefs in what they are comfortable with — Medicine, Science, Specialists? Something I’ve observed numerous times that I even find humorous, is this: Most people will accept the application of electrical modalities: muscle stimulation, whether wall (alternating) current or small battery (DC) powered TENS units, but the minute you replace those wires and electrical pads with a magnetic brace, bracelet or even magnets applied with adhesive tape to the identical area of the body or application site, people begin to fear occultic influences?! What makes the concept that the application of electric to the body is acceptable, but the biomagnetic nature of the human body is questionable? And heaven forbid I should even hint that the applicator head of therapeutic ultrasound units contain crystals.(it is a scientific fact; they quit working when the crystals overheat and burn if you operate them without conducting gel or in a container of water) As I was saying, Ultrasound works because crystals convert the ultrasonic energy into wave-form into muscles and joints, and are used in every hospital physical therapy department across the nation, but it amuses me when people instantly become possessed with a desire to go on witch hunts when topics of crystals and magnets come up.

[Wade]

My concern with some of these things that do work, are not that they work. If they didn't work, it would be of no concern to me. My question always is - what power are we submitting to when they do work?

I am over 60 and take 5 or 6 prescription medications. Do they work? My blood pressure is controlled; my cholesterol is under control. Would there be other more "natural" ways to do the same thing? Probably! If I could fully trust in God, my blood pressure would not be an issue. I am human - just as human as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; just as human as David and Solomon.

Careful, a friend who is 63 told me the other day he has taken high blood pressure medication for nearly 15 years. It turns out that over time they found out this drug is not good for prolonged use but his doctor continued to give him the prescription. It was only recently after his doctor retired that his new doctor noticed this big problem. Now my friend's liver and kidneys are shutting down from following his doctors advice... I can't recall the name of the drug.

Yes, you're right, my mother was on several blood pressure meds for probably half her life, and she did die then of CHF. She was coherent up to the last, I had a good conversation with her the evening before her passing. She was still about 3 months short of her 96th birthday when she died.

I didn't say blood pressure meds are bad.

I'm glad for your conversation with your mother.

But could you help me understand how your story could help my friend whose liver and kidneys are shutting down at 63?

There might 1000's of good stories to one bad story - I get that.

For me it is not about sides but about who or Who people are putting their trust in. I am yet to get a sense from most of the comments from the pro-pharmaceutical people that they are willing to fully trust God whether they use conventional medicine or not with how they generally come across in being so pro-pharma... It often seems to come across as idolatrous or they are looking to witch hunt, to me - that is the problem - not medicine.

[silentreader]

Careful, a friend who is 63 told me the other day he has taken high blood pressure medication for nearly 15 years. It turns out that over time they found out this drug is not good for prolonged use but his doctor continued to give him the prescription. It was only recently after his doctor retired that his new doctor noticed this big problem. Now my friend's liver and kidneys are shutting down from following his doctors advice... I can't recall the name of the drug.

Yes, you're right, my mother was on several blood pressure meds for probably half her life, and she did die then of CHF. She was coherent up to the last, I had a good conversation with her the evening before her passing. She was still about 3 months short of her 96th birthday when she died.

I didn't say blood pressure meds are bad.

I'm glad for your conversation with your mother.

But could you help me understand how your story could help my friend whose liver and kidneys are shutting down at 63?

There might 1000's of good stories to one bad story - I get that.

For me it is not about sides but about who or Who people are putting their trust in. I am yet to get a sense from most of the comments from the pro-pharmaceutical people that they are willing to fully trust God whether they use conventional medicine or not with how they generally come across in being so pro-pharma... It often seems to come across as idolatrous or they are looking to witch hunt, to me - that is the problem - not medicine.

The only point I was making is that in this particular subject the broad brush approach is not credible. Every person is genetically unique. A drug or combination of drugs that may help one person retain quality of life may be a poison to another.

[Wade]

Yes, you're right, my mother was on several blood pressure meds for probably half her life, and she did die then of CHF. She was coherent up to the last, I had a good conversation with her the evening before her passing. She was still about 3 months short of her 96th birthday when she died.

I didn't say blood pressure meds are bad.

I'm glad for your conversation with your mother.

But could you help me understand how your story could help my friend whose liver and kidneys are shutting down at 63?

There might 1000's of good stories to one bad story - I get that.

For me it is not about sides but about who or Who people are putting their trust in. I am yet to get a sense from most of the comments from the pro-pharmaceutical people that they are willing to fully trust God whether they use conventional medicine or not with how they generally come across in being so pro-pharma... It often seems to come across as idolatrous or they are looking to witch hunt, to me - that is the problem - not medicine.

The only point I was making is that in this particular subject the broad brush approach is not credible. Every person is genetically unique. A drug or combination of drugs that may help one person retain quality of life may be a poison to another.

Then stop using or assuming the broad brush approach.

[JohnHurt]

.....Your "opinions" are based on what you have read from documents and internet sites the mainstream medical establishment has created to promote their own procedures, which is how they make their obscene profits. You are like a child that repeats whatever their parents believe. You don't have a background for your opinions, as your opinions are not based on your own experience....

Do you have any first-hand experience with all of the documents and internet sites that all of us have read, that you can so confidently make this assertion? How do you even know that the mainstream medical establishment makes obscene profits? Firsthand experience?
Methinks you may be doing exactly what you are castigating the other posters on this thread for doing, namely accepting sources you consider reliable and trustworthy as factual.

Ken,

Your own experience should be considered superior to what you read or see on TV. The documents you read on the internet are not always correct, regardless of the source, especially when there is money involved or a "profit motive" to write such articles. Your own experience is more valuable, to me and to everyone else.

From your own experience, do you know any doctors that have taken a lifetime vow of poverty? Do you know any doctors that live in a trailer park? Do you know a doctor that has to work a second job to make ends meet? What about a doctor that cannot afford to send his children to college? I don't know any doctors like this. Every doctor I know has become very rich.

From your own experience, the last time you were in a hospital or went to the doctor, did you analyze your bill and look at how much you were charged for, say, a paper gown, an aspirin, or an injection? Were the prices fair, or were they inflated? What was your experience?

I hope you don't think I am castigating you, I just want you to tell me what you have actually experienced.

From my experience, I have found that most doctors are overpaid, and the hospitals overcharge the insurance companies. I have found from my research that most doctors get some sort of "kickback" or "secret rebate" from the drug companies for prescribing, or over-prescribing various drugs. Whatever profit comes from this activity is "obscene", as it is morally offensive.

The last doctor I visited about a year ago tried to get me on a "statin" drug, even before he saw my blood work. He practically made fun of me for opposing the use of statin drugs. My blood work said my cholesterol levels were perfect, and I did not need anything. I think this doctor also got a kickback from selling drugs. That is the only thing that explains his actions.

Another doctor that tried to convince me and my wife to abort my 3rd son due to a possible viral infection (my son was born with no trouble) - this quack doctor is a walking obscenity, that wanted to perform an unnecessary operation on my wife and kill my son so that he could make money. This doctor is morally repugnant and should be removed from the medical profession. That was my experience - in real life.

My experience growing up in Smyrna TN in the 1970's was with a Cuban doctor who learned everything he knew in Havana. He maybe spent a year or so in medical school there, then became a doctor in Cuba, fled from Castro, and was accepted as a full doctor here in the USA. He obviously lacked any real training. I lot of people complained that he did not know what he was doing, but he was the only doctor in town at that time. I had him perform some minor surgery on me, and he could not even sew the wounds up properly - it busted open because his knots did not hold. It left several huge scars on my legs. My friends told me that whenever you came into his office, he would examine you, then go back in and look up your condition in the Merck Manual, and give you a prescription. That was all he could do. He could cut you open, sew you up, and give you a pill. Of the 3 things he could do, he could only do one with any real success.

Not all doctors are bad, just like not all lawyers are bad. But just like the saying that it is 95% of the lawyers that give the other 5% a bad name, so do many of the doctors that perform unnecessary operations, don't know what they are doing, and over-prescribe medications so they can take kickback from the drug companies - these doctors whatever percentage they are - they give the good doctors that don't do these things a bad name.

I have, from my experience, met some really good doctors. They are precious. The last one I knew retired a few years ago.

Thanks, and I hope you do well.

John

[silentreader]

I didn't say blood pressure meds are bad.

I'm glad for your conversation with your mother.

But could you help me understand how your story could help my friend whose liver and kidneys are shutting down at 63?

There might 1000's of good stories to one bad story - I get that.

For me it is not about sides but about who or Who people are putting their trust in. I am yet to get a sense from most of the comments from the pro-pharmaceutical people that they are willing to fully trust God whether they use conventional medicine or not with how they generally come across in being so pro-pharma... It often seems to come across as idolatrous or they are looking to witch hunt, to me - that is the problem - not medicine.

The only point I was making is that in this particular subject the broad brush approach is not credible. Every person is genetically unique. A drug or combination of drugs that may help one person retain quality of life may be a poison to another.

Then stop using or assuming the broad brush approach.

Can you back over any posts I have made on this subject where you see me using the broad brush approach so that I can apologize if I actually did?

[JohnHurt]

This may be slightly off the topic of iridology, but it goes along with people accusing others of making unsubstantiated claims and speculations when it comes to medical-related topics. People tend to reveal they place their faith and beliefs in what they are comfortable with — Medicine, Science, Specialists? Something I’ve observed numerous times that I even find humorous, is this: Most people will accept the application of electrical modalities: muscle stimulation, whether wall (alternating) current or small battery (DC) powered TENS units, but the minute you replace those wires and electrical pads with a magnetic brace, bracelet or even magnets applied with adhesive tape to the identical area of the body or application site, people begin to fear occultic influences?! What makes the concept that the application of electric to the body is acceptable, but the biomagnetic nature of the human body is questionable? And heaven forbid I should even hint that the applicator head of therapeutic ultrasound units contain crystals.(it is a scientific fact; they quit working when the crystals overheat and burn if you operate them without conducting gel or in a container of water) As I was saying, Ultrasound works because crystals convert the ultrasonic energy into wave-form into muscles and joints, and are used in every hospital physical therapy department across the nation, but it amuses me when people instantly become possessed with a desire to go on witch hunts when topics of crystals and magnets come up.

That is very interesting. The biomagnetic nature of the body may have something to do with the meridians associated with acupuncture and acupressure. I wonder if these meridian are the pathway between the iris and the various organs, which is the basis of iridology.

Our understanding of these things are so limited, that the best we can do it so share our experiences of what works. If the "science" of modern medicine works, then share it, if "quackery" works then share that too.

My experience is that if something is expensive and can only be performed in a Hospital and funded by a large insurance bill, then it is science. Examples: Ultrasound, MRI, CAT Scan, Open Heart Surgery

If it is cheap and you can do it yourself, then it is quackery. Examples: Chelation instead of open heart surgery, herbs, essential oils, diet, exercise. I guess cheap magnets taped to the body would be quackery too, but if you could charge the insurance company $100,000 for them, it would be science.

One of my chiropractors used to put electric wires for muscle stimulation prior to an adjustment, and it just did not work for me. His adjustments weren't very good either. The best chiropractor I have ever used was "born" into it, as his father and grandfather were chiropractors.

A friend of mine used something called the "Coil", which is a souped up version of a Rife machine, to cure himself and his family of Lyme disease. Morris Fishbein that ran the AMA in 1940's told Royal Rife that he would allow the Rife machine to be used in medicine, but only if Mr. Rife gave Mr. Fishbein 50% of the profits. Royal Rife said "no", and so the Rife machine has been "quackery" every since. Otherwise, it would be "science".

The ancients used a lot of copper bracelets, which may have some medical benefits. My grandparents used to put a silver coin in their water bucket to kill germs. Gold seems to work as a filling for your teeth, while amalgam fillings are quite harmful.

Essential oils are probably the greatest tool you can use to heal yourself. After we discovered how to use them, we never get sick. As soon as an illness starts coming on, we use a certain oil for healing.

I used chelation and Japanese Natto to cure my Central Retinal Vein Occlusion (CRVO), along with a juice diet of carrot juice for about 2 weeks. The other alternative was to use an eye doctor that wanted to inject the RNA from a mouse spleen into my eye. He is not a quack for his therapy is expensive. I am a quack, supposedly for using Natto and Chelation, as they are cheap.
He said I might get glaucoma from the eye injections, and that the mouse spleen injections wasn't a cure, just a treatment that would last only a month. So I would have to come back every month. He uses modern science for his medicine. I am so glad I chose to be a quack and not use modern medicine. I am now cured and can see out of my eye, with a home remedy, and do not have glaucoma or a bunch of needle holes in my eye.

Here is a good one. I went to the Amish doctor, did not tell him anything, and he told me I had stiffness of joints, which is why I was there. He told me the best way to cure my joints was to use Cortaflex - this is a glucosamine or Chondrotin solution that is broken down to the molecular level and it can pass into the joints much easier than whatever else you can buy. But the FDA won't approve it, so it is only sold for horses. But if a human uses it, it works 10 times better than any other solution you can buy. I used it, and was healed. And it is very, very cheap to use.

The Amish doctor also told me I had an enlarged prostate and to take magnesium, and I knew I had some issues there, but he diagnosed it without me telling him. Every man over 50 should be taking magnesium. Magnesium, from my experience, is helpful in this area.

What I did not know is when the Amish doctor told me that I had intestinal parasites. He suggested a 21 day herb cleanse - that tasted really terrible. After the cleanse, I got my strength back and wasn't tired anymore.

If you take your dog to the vet because he is feeling bad or run down, the vet will check him for parasites and look at his diet. If you go to a doctor for lack of energy, they will not check you for parasites or tell you to change your diet, as the doctor will have an entirely different outlook.

I used to eat sushi and believe this is where I got my parasites, from uncooked fish. I also drank from springs when I went backpacking, and could have gotten it there. I wonder how many people are tired and run down, and suffer from parasites and do not even know it? Probably a lot of people. I hope this helps someone.