Vaccinations - Poll

[Josh]

Wade,

As I pointed out (at least in America), the penalties for breaking drug marketing laws are serious. People go to prison for it - look at Purdue Pharma, which was a crooked drug company. There will be prison sentences and already billions of dollars of assets have been seized because of wrongdoing.

I simply don’t think we can paint doctors and pharmaceutical industry as corrupt, and if we do, then the “alternative medicine” industry is far, far more corrupt. So where’s the condemnation of fringe chiropractic, naturopaths, and “natural” remedies which are not proven to cure anything?

[Wade]

Wade,

As I pointed out (at least in America), the penalties for breaking drug marketing laws are serious. People go to prison for it - look at Purdue Pharma, which was a crooked drug company. There will be prison sentences and already billions of dollars of assets have been seized because of wrongdoing.

Small personal gifts that show no attachment to funds from a company are a way of giving kickbacks that can go undetected and can be done "without company knowledge."

Please keep in mind that sharing my experience and what I have been told doesn't mean that it is the normal procedure, I hope it isn't, but to say there is no corruption in worldly companies...? Let's just be consistent is all.

I simply don’t think we can paint doctors and pharmaceutical industry as corrupt, and if we do, then the “alternative medicine” industry is far, far more corrupt. So where’s the condemnation of fringe chiropractic, naturopaths, and “natural” remedies which are not proven to cure anything?

An argument against one thing is not an argument in support of another.
To translate:
Asking questions to doctors is not an argument in support of antivaxxers.

Asking why a doctors gives false information about vaccines in not an argument that everything they say is corrupt.

Asking why my doctor would recommend the Hep B shot for my 2 year old when GSK makes 2 billion a year off of the vaccine and they have been found guilty and fined in the past for distributing psychiatric drugs for children that weren't properly approved is not an argument against all vaccines.

A naturopath doctor talking to me for 15 minutes and curing my stomach aches that for 25 years conventional doctors did multiple tests and did more harm is no argument for naturopath doctors or against all conventional medicine.

And because my experience is very limited with chiropractors and naturopaths is not an argument that I avoid them but I really don't have much to say about them except maybe a bit more than what I have already said.

[Soloist]

I am talking about the kid who was developmentally normal his whole life hitting every milestone and is now in diapers wearing a helmet banging his head on the wall.

Vaccines do not do this. Very rare complications are much less likely than getting a disease because you are unvaccinated.

I live with someone who has polio, which was quite common before mass vaccinations. It’s rare to find anyone age 65+ who is anti vaccine because they grew up with things like polio.

Repeating that vaccines cause autism or mental retardation is repeating lies, end of story. It has no basis in historic or present day Christian belief and faith, and at some point, I believe strong anti-vaccine beliefs are a sign of a serious spiritual problem.

Autism no, retardation yes.

Ever heard of encephalitis? it does and can result from vaccines and cause brain damage.
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/ ... /101/3/383

Results. A total of 48 children, ages 10 to 49 months, met the inclusion criteria after receiving measles vaccine, alone or in combination. Eight children died, and the remainder had mental regression and retardation, chronic seizures, motor and sensory deficits, and movement disorders. The onset of neurologic signs or symptoms occurred with a nonrandom, statistically significant distribution of cases on days 8 and 9. No cases were identified after the administration of monovalent mumps or rubella vaccine.

I will repeat, this is rare but it does happen.

[DrWojo]

This morning one of my patients brought up the subject of flu shots. She grew up in Australia and told me the last time she received a flu shot was while living in Australia. She said she and her husband received the flu shot and experienced hallucination-like sensations a few hours afterward. Then, she said a few days later both her husband and her experienced it again and came down with bad cases of the flu.

[Joy]

have you ever seen a vaccine reaction?

have you seen the devastating results is does to a family?

I see it every Sunday at church, as I mentioned before. I will say this, our church is better to the child than other churches they used to attend, the mother reports.

[ken_sylvania]

Wade,

As I pointed out (at least in America), the penalties for breaking drug marketing laws are serious. People go to prison for it - look at Purdue Pharma, which was a crooked drug company. There will be prison sentences and already billions of dollars of assets have been seized because of wrongdoing.

I simply don’t think we can paint doctors and pharmaceutical industry as corrupt, and if we do, then the “alternative medicine” industry is far, far more corrupt. So where’s the condemnation of fringe chiropractic, naturopaths, and “natural” remedies which are not proven to cure anything?

And Purdue Pharma got away with it for how long?
The prison sentences and billions of dollars of assets being seized, is that because nobody was corrupt, or because people were corrupt?

In the Purdue Pharma case, the damage was horrific, visible, clearly resulting from Purdue's actions, and very costly to governments. If the results had only been half or a quarter as clear, would states have bothered to investigate and prosecute? I doubt it.

If Purdue got away with it for as long as they did, what are the chances that other major companies are also corrupt and just haven't been caught yet?

The threat of penalties didn't prevent Purdue's misconduct, why should I expect they will prevent all other misconduct?

One of the major news organizations recently did an investigation into the offshore sourcing of various prescription drugs, and their findings suggest that FDA has a long ways to go to be worthy of the trust they expect from the American public.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Wade,

As I pointed out (at least in America), the penalties for breaking drug marketing laws are serious. People go to prison for it - look at Purdue Pharma, which was a crooked drug company. There will be prison sentences and already billions of dollars of assets have been seized because of wrongdoing.

I simply don’t think we can paint doctors and pharmaceutical industry as corrupt, and if we do, then the “alternative medicine” industry is far, far more corrupt. So where’s the condemnation of fringe chiropractic, naturopaths, and “natural” remedies which are not proven to cure anything?

Hey, I could point you to a “doctor” who sells urine samples he collected in a public restroom, claiming it is a cure for cancer. His “cures” are rather costly, as I found out.

J.M.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I am talking about the kid who was developmentally normal his whole life hitting every milestone and is now in diapers wearing a helmet banging his head on the wall.

Vaccines do not do this. Very rare complications are much less likely than getting a disease because you are unvaccinated.

I live with someone who has polio, which was quite common before mass vaccinations. It’s rare to find anyone age 65+ who is anti vaccine because they grew up with things like polio.

Repeating that vaccines cause autism or mental retardation is repeating lies, end of story. It has no basis in historic or present day Christian belief and faith, and at some point, I believe strong anti-vaccine beliefs are a sign of a serious spiritual problem.

Autism no, retardation yes.

Ever heard of encephalitis? it does and can result from vaccines and cause brain damage.
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/ ... /101/3/383

Results. A total of 48 children, ages 10 to 49 months, met the inclusion criteria after receiving measles vaccine, alone or in combination. Eight children died, and the remainder had mental regression and retardation, chronic seizures, motor and sensory deficits, and movement disorders. The onset of neurologic signs or symptoms occurred with a nonrandom, statistically significant distribution of cases on days 8 and 9. No cases were identified after the administration of monovalent mumps or rubella vaccine.

I will repeat, this is rare but it does happen.

So does measles, and it is not rare. That is one of the more common complications of measles.
Since you have only quoted part of it, these 48 appear to be all of these complications over a 23 year period. By my math, that is two, nationwide per year. Assuming 2 million doses of MMR per year, that is literally a million to one.

Far better odds with the vaccine, if you ask me. The strain of measles they had in Samoa caused a mortality rate of about 1 in 150 cases. That is way high historically, but it may be a harbinger of things to come.

J.M.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Wade,

As I pointed out (at least in America), the penalties for breaking drug marketing laws are serious. People go to prison for it - look at Purdue Pharma, which was a crooked drug company. There will be prison sentences and already billions of dollars of assets have been seized because of wrongdoing.

I simply don’t think we can paint doctors and pharmaceutical industry as corrupt, and if we do, then the “alternative medicine” industry is far, far more corrupt. So where’s the condemnation of fringe chiropractic, naturopaths, and “natural” remedies which are not proven to cure anything?

And Purdue Pharma got away with it for how long?
The prison sentences and billions of dollars of assets being seized, is that because nobody was corrupt, or because people were corrupt?

In the Purdue Pharma case, the damage was horrific, visible, clearly resulting from Purdue's actions, and very costly to governments. If the results had only been half or a quarter as clear, would states have bothered to investigate and prosecute? I doubt it.

If Purdue got away with it for as long as they did, what are the chances that other major companies are also corrupt and just haven't been caught yet?

The threat of penalties didn't prevent Purdue's misconduct, why should I expect they will prevent all other misconduct?

One of the major news organizations recently did an investigation into the offshore sourcing of various prescription drugs, and their findings suggest that FDA has a long ways to go to be worthy of the trust they expect from the American public.

The issue with Purdue was not a bad drug, but bad marketing. That is a lot harder to pick up.

BTW, we had a REAL bad brig in my line of work. Took the FDA all of three months to pull it. Google Neutrospect if you like. Doubt if anything is there anymore.

J.M.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Wade,

As I pointed out (at least in America), the penalties for breaking drug marketing laws are serious. People go to prison for it - look at Purdue Pharma, which was a crooked drug company. There will be prison sentences and already billions of dollars of assets have been seized because of wrongdoing.

Small personal gifts that show no attachment to funds from a company are a way of giving kickbacks that can go undetected and can be done "without company knowledge."

Please keep in mind that sharing my experience and what I have been told doesn't mean that it is the normal procedure, I hope it isn't, but to say there is no corruption in worldly companies...? Let's just be consistent is all.

I simply don’t think we can paint doctors and pharmaceutical industry as corrupt, and if we do, then the “alternative medicine” industry is far, far more corrupt. So where’s the condemnation of fringe chiropractic, naturopaths, and “natural” remedies which are not proven to cure anything?

An argument against one thing is not an argument in support of another.
To translate:
Asking questions to doctors is not an argument in support of antivaxxers.

Asking why a doctors gives false information about vaccines in not an argument that everything they say is corrupt.

Asking why my doctor would recommend the Hep B shot for my 2 year old when GSK makes 2 billion a year off of the vaccine and they have been found guilty and fined in the past for distributing psychiatric drugs for children that weren't properly approved is not an argument against all vaccines.

A naturopath doctor talking to me for 15 minutes and curing my stomach aches that for 25 years conventional doctors did multiple tests and did more harm is no argument for naturopath doctors or against all conventional medicine.

And because my experience is very limited with chiropractors and naturopaths is not an argument that I avoid them but I really don't have much to say about them except maybe a bit more than what I have already said.

You mean out of the drug reps own pocket? Give me a break. If they expensed it out it would be with company knowledge.

Have you ever worked in a management position in a large company? If you expense anything you have to have a why?

J.M.