Vaccinations - Poll

[Wade]

Other translations use the word "factious" or "divisive" here, not "heretick."
Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, Titus 3:10 NASB

But considering the conversations on this thread, maybe the verse is on topic after all, considering the context of v. 10, especially calling the beliefs of other Christians "a false religion," a pretty serious accusation.

v. 9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

I was hopeful that some would be able to do better but the continued implied accusations don't allow for profitable discussion it seems.

[violet]

have you ever seen a vaccine reaction?

have you seen the devastating results is does to a family?

I have.

and, it was horrific.

I respect a lot of what you convey JM.

However, if anyone is ever going to get to some common ground, then the people who have seen the worst of both sides are going to have to try and come to a sensible solution.

Until then, nothing much will change except people disagreeing and trying to make one another do what the other wishes.

And, you are right...I should have checked out that doctor that you slung through the mud better. But to be brutally honest, she was not what what important. She merely provided more explanation to the comment above her.

Remember what you said in the CAM thread.....and I will paraphrase....."one is too many". Well, that is how I feel about life changing vaccine reactions. I am not talking about the kind where the kid gets a fever or a mild rash. I am talking about the kid who was developmentally normal his whole life hitting every milestone and is now in diapers wearing a helmet banging his head on the wall. And, his mother who will never hear him tell her that he loves her ever again. Yeah, just like your 1979, that type of witness changes a person. Changes a person for life.

so, why not? why not make the vaccines better? why not test them? why not?

and, for the record. I am in perfect standing with leadership. We are friends and having dinner next Sunday night.

[AnthonyMartin]

I am in favor of vaccines and also favor making some of them mandatory. I don't understand the passion that leads to divisions among believers over them. It seems to me we have a tendency to attribute far too much to the medical professional; both in what they can accomplish and their conspiring to force ill-willed treatment on us. It is incredible what medical advancements have been able to accomplish, but the human race still has a 100% mortality rate, except for Enoch and Elijah I suppose.

I understand having different perspectives, I understand wanting to make different choices. I do not understand allowing the issue to descend into destroying relationships. Either way we still have to place a certain amount of faith in God. Either way we cannot create an environment that is completely safe for anyone. I may believe a brother has embraced a completely false conspiracy theory about vaccines, but I have a hard time seeing how that would lead me to conclude that he is no longer a brother.

[appleman2006]

Anthony I agree with you up to a point at least. I have no problem with those that cautiously raise their questions in regards to vaccinations. I do have an issue with those that regularly go on line giving the impression they are experts on the matter and copying and pasting all manner of garbage and in some case just plain lies on the issue.

That is very dangerous and while I want to be charitable I think it is important that people are called out on that.

[AnthonyMartin]

Anthony I agree with you up to a point at least. I have no problem with those that cautiously raise their questions in regards to vaccinations. I do have an issue with those that regularly go on line giving the impression they are experts on the matter and copying and pasting all manner of garbage and in some case just plain lies on the issue.

That is very dangerous and while I want to be charitable I think it is important that people are called out on that.

Agreed. Good relationships will welcome that "calling out". The ease of distributing false propaganda is very concerning.

[appleman2006]

have you ever seen a vaccine reaction?

have you seen the devastating results is does to a family?

I have.

and, it was horrific.

I respect a lot of what you convey JM.

However, if anyone is ever going to get to some common ground, then the people who have seen the worst of both sides are going to have to try and come to a sensible solution.

Until then, nothing much will change except people disagreeing and trying to make one another do what the other wishes.

And, you are right...I should have checked out that doctor that you slung through the mud better. But to be brutally honest, she was not what what important. She merely provided more explanation to the comment above her.

Remember what you said in the CAM thread.....and I will paraphrase....."one is too many". Well, that is how I feel about life changing vaccine reactions. I am not talking about the kind where the kid gets a fever or a mild rash. I am talking about the kid who was developmentally normal his whole life hitting every milestone and is now in diapers wearing a helmet banging his head on the wall. And, his mother who will never hear him tell her that he loves her ever again. Yeah, just like your 1979, that type of witness changes a person. Changes a person for life.

so, why not? why not make the vaccines better? why not test them? why not?

and, for the record. I am in perfect standing with leadership. We are friends and having dinner next Sunday night.

Violet. I do know of one case like this. A relatively close neighbour. The child is now well over 20 years old. That is one case in the thousands and thousands of children I know who have not had serious reactions or no reactions at all.
Does that one case mean we should be careful. I think so. It does mean that drugs should be tested and retested and retested and then tested again. And guess what. They are. It costs a lot of money and is at least part of the reason why medicine costs what it does but I am alright with that.
If your point is that bad things can happen so we should be very careful I am alright and even supportive of that. If your point however is that one bad thing possibly happening occasionally should make the whole project wrong, I cannot accept that. In this case IMO the small amount of risk justifies the huge possible good. We take risks all the time. Risks much bigger than this every time we drive on the road.

[violet]

I agree appleman.

and if us two know two, then there are more than we realize. In fact there are quite a lot.

and, then (ducks) there is my issue with aborted fetal cells.

But, when there is a risk such as grave as this, then, the parents should have final say in if the risk is worth it.

Testing is good. I will agree with that. But, not good enough.

I am tired...of the debate....and I know if I don't come back with the exact CDC stat, then I am going to get drug through the mud again...so, let me just say this....with the amount of vaccines today and the combos they are given in, I do not agree that there has been enough research done.

Most parents don't want there kids sick with disease that could have been prevented.

I still feel as though more research is needed.

but, with this, I am going to be done. It is too much emotionally. And, I agree.....I do not wish to continue to escalate strife.

[violet]

I would also like to add...being called out is fine.

However, everyone that was called out...well, was not done in a way that is respectful of that person's view. Even at the very end, it is accompanied by the, "but you are still wrong."

[Wade]

I am certain that if all doctors and nurses were willing to talk about and address parents concerns without automatically labeling someone with questions and concerns as an antivaxxer that is out to harm people, and were willing to talk to them as a person and not as someone inferior and unlearned; I believe that the number of antivaxxers would be closer to zero. I think that is the issue that is often trying to be addressed but yet it seems to me the provaxxers are the most prevelant in not listening and belittling.
In fact I don't recall seeing even one person on here claim that they are 100% opposed to every single vaccine which would further prove the point that is continually being disregarded.
Imagine if we worked together at how much more positive things could be done in the development of vaccines?!

[appleman2006]

I am certain that if all doctors and nurses were willing to talk about and address parents concerns without automatically labeling someone with questions and concerns as an antivaxxer that is out to harm people, and were willing to talk to them as a person and not as someone inferior and unlearned; I believe that the number of antivaxxers would be closer to zero. I think that is the issue that is often trying to be addressed but yet it seems to me the provaxxers are the most prevelant in not listening and belittling.
In fact I don't recall seeing even one person on here claim that they are 100% opposed to every single vaccine which would further prove the point that is continually being disregarded.
Imagine if we worked together at how much more positive things could be done in the development of vaccines?!

Your comments are fair Wade. Except that if you look at the poll there are 11 people that said they were opposed to vaccines. period. That to me out of the small sample size we have here is alarming.