Is there a security crisis at the Southwest border?

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Bootstrap
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Is there a security crisis at the Southwest border?

Post by Bootstrap »

Is there a crisis at the Southwest border?

When I look at long-term trends, it looks like fewer people are coming in, not more, and by quite a lot. The short term blips in the last few years are a drop in the bucket compared to the long-term downward trend.

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Another claim I hear is that thousands of terrorists are getting in via the Southwest border and a wall would stop that. But this also looks like a blatant lie.

Nick Rasmussen says no such crisis exists.
Our federal courthouses and prisons are not filled with terrorists we’ve captured at the border. There is no wave of terrorist operatives waiting to cross overland into the United States. It simply isn’t true. Anyone in authority using this argument to bolster support for building the wall or any other physical barrier along the southern border is most likely guilty of fear mongering and willfully misleading the American people.

Why do I know this? As Director of the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC) from December 2014 until December 2017, it was my job to lead the government’s efforts to collect and analyze all available information about terrorist threats to the Homeland. It was my responsibility on behalf of the Intelligence Community to synthesize and present that terrorism picture to our most senior decision makers – up to and including the President of the United States — so that sound decisions could be made about how to protect the Homeland from terrorist attack.

Here is ground truth on this issue. Terrorist groups like al-Qa’ida and ISIS spend time talking about, brainstorming and even fantasizing about ways in which they can do harm to the United State. At times, those conversations have certainly included discussion of ways in which terrorist operatives might be inserted into the Homeland. But we also knew from intelligence reporting that terrorist groups have very high regard for our Homeland Security capabilities, including our border security. They know we had become a much “harder” target than at the time of 9/11 and that getting their operatives into the United States is an extremely challenging proposition.

In part, that’s why terrorist groups pivoted in recent years to a different business model. Rather than focusing on trying to insert a terrorist operative from abroad, it has proven to be far easier for an organization like ISIS or al-Qa’ida to inspire or motivate an individual already inside the United States to act on their behalf. That change has left us with the threat condition that prevails today, in which the greatest terrorism threat we face is from what we call Homegrown Violent Extremists (HVEs) – in most cases individuals who were either born here or have lived here for most of their adult lives.
So, what to make of these thousands of so-called terrorists prevented from entering the country across our southern border? Where do these numbers come from? What seems true is that our system of terrorist watch listing is in fact working. Though DHS has not provided data to support its claims, I suspect that on many occasions in recent years, perhaps adding up to thousands, individuals who live abroad and want to travel to the United States have been denied the opportunity to do so because of a concern about a potential nexus to terrorism. Such an individual would have their visa or ESTA application denied and no travel would occur. In other cases, so-called Special Interest Aliens (SIA) from countries of terrorism concern have likely been stopped at the border.

But each of those visa denials or SIA encounters hardly equates to disruption of a terrorist plot or the “capture” of a known terrorist. Our watchlisting system is predicated on a carefully calibrated risk management approach. When the intelligence community acquires information that points to a potential link to terrorist activity, individuals are not permitted to travel to the United States.
So ... is there a security crisis at the Southwest border? If so, can someone explain to me what it is?
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RZehr
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Re: Is there a security crisis at the Southwest border?

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The down trend is only due to political hostility and fear. The minute that changes, the graph will scoot right up.
There is a massive, pentup amount of jobs going unfilled with this employment rate and wages are rising.
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Re: Is there a security crisis at the Southwest border?

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RZehr wrote:The down trend is only due to political hostility and fear. The minute that changes, the graph will scoot right up.
There is a massive, pentup amount of jobs going unfilled with this employment rate and wages are rising.
It's been going down since 2000 or so, it's not due to the Trump Administration. It's been going down for a long time, and I don't think there was as much hostility and fear during the Bush Administration or the Obama Administration. In fact, the overall numbers have gone up a little during the Trump Administration.

And regardless, if the numbers are way down, what exactly is the crisis?

Perhaps hostility and fear and political rhetoric are the crisis? Perhaps it's not a crisis based on reality? Or am I missing something?
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RZehr
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Re: Is there a security crisis at the Southwest border?

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Bootstrap wrote:
RZehr wrote:The down trend is only due to political hostility and fear. The minute that changes, the graph will scoot right up.
There is a massive, pentup amount of jobs going unfilled with this employment rate and wages are rising.
It's been going down since 2000 or so, it's not due to the Trump Administration. It's been going down for a long time, and I don't think there was as much hostility and fear during the Bush Administration or the Obama Administration. In fact, the overall numbers have gone up a little during the Trump Administration.

And regardless, if the numbers are way down, what exactly is the crisis?

Perhaps hostility and fear and political rhetoric are the crisis? Perhaps it's not a crisis based on reality? Or am I missing something?
Wouldn’t 9/11 be a reason it started going down? Who mentioned Trump? ;) He didn’t invent the fear against illegal border crossing.

But okay, yes I did have in mind Trumps hostility. I’ve personally heard illegals who have been here decades, tell me about their fear of being deported in the last few years since Trumps campaign.

All that aside, I have no doubt that we would see the rate rise very quickly if the climate was more favorable.

But I agree with you on the crisis point. I don’t think the crisis is too many immigrants. If I’d point to a crisis at all, I’d point to a low birth rate, low immigration rate, and high abortion rate. The crisis in my opinion, is not enough people to pay for the bills this country is racking up.
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Re: Is there a security crisis at the Southwest border?

Post by GaryK »

Obama's Border Patrol chief unequivocally says there is a national security crisis.

[video][/video]
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Re: Is there a security crisis at the Southwest border?

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GaryK wrote:Obama's Border Patrol chief unequivocally says there is a national security crisis.
He does. He doesn't state what exactly the national security crisis is. I would really like some specifics here. Why is it suddenly a crisis in a way it hasn't been for the last 2 years? What changed after they came to agreement in December and Trump said he would sign the new budget? Did something change in the security situation? If we have a security crisis so severe that we have to shut down the government, what exactly is that crisis, and when did it occur? If we're talking about the wall, I assume this is a crisis that the wall actually prevents.

An organization of law enforcement officials and mayors in MacAllen, Texas, where he held the press conference at the start of your video, is saying that MacAllen is one of the safest cities in Texas and they do not have a national security crisis.

So how do we sort this out? I don't think campaign rallies will help us get to the truth. Someone has to go in and systematically put some information together.
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Re: Is there a security crisis at the Southwest border?

Post by Valerie »

Bootstrap wrote:
GaryK wrote:Obama's Border Patrol chief unequivocally says there is a national security crisis.
He does. He doesn't state what exactly the national security crisis is. I would really like some specifics here. Why is it suddenly a crisis in a way it hasn't been for the last 2 years? What changed after they came to agreement in December and Trump said he would sign the new budget? Did something change in the security situation? If we have a security crisis so severe that we have to shut down the government, what exactly is that crisis, and when did it occur? If we're talking about the wall, I assume this is a crisis that the wall actually prevents.

An organization of law enforcement officials and mayors in MacAllen, Texas, where he held the press conference at the start of your video, is saying that MacAllen is one of the safest cities in Texas and they do not have a national security crisis.

So how do we sort this out? I don't think campaign rallies will help us get to the truth. Someone has to go in and systematically put some information together.
Question (and I'm serious)

Why do you think this was such an important campaign promise that President Trump ran on? Why do you think the American people believed this to begin with? Who was giving President Trump the information that made this so important to him?
I really can't help but wonder this-
Do we believe they are obligated to tell us everything? Maybe there is a valid reason some things are kept from us, for national security reasons- can we not rule that out?
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Re: Is there a security crisis at the Southwest border?

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Valerie wrote:Question (and I'm serious)

Why do you think this was such an important campaign promise that President Trump ran on? Why do you think the American people believed this to begin with? Who was giving President Trump the information that made this so important to him?
Because it is effective campaign symbolism. Because he ran telling us that the world is a scary place, only he can save us, and nobody must stand in his way, not Congress, not the courts, not the media. It makes for very effective campaign rhetoric, but it only appeals to the less-than-45% of the electorate who support him, leaving a majority who don't believe him.

Having run on this promise, why do you think he never produced a proposal or got it passed through a Republican-controlled Congress? He could have easily classified portions of it if it was non-public information, the government knows how to deal with that.

But he and his administration have clearly lied so often about these things. 4,000 terrorists slipping across the Southern border? Oh wait, I guess he's talking about the people who weren't allowed to fly because they are on the no-fly list. They never got anywhere near the Southwest border. Portraying the Honduran caravan as an invasion, full of terrorists? Complete fiction. Those piles of contraband intercepted at the border? Intercepted at legal checkpoints, reinforcing the wall wouldn't help. As the lies pile up, it gets harder and harder to assume that a new claim is true without proof. And here's a fun fact: even if people come to doubt that some of these things are true, it often leaves an emotional residue, it feels true even if they kind of know it isn't true.

I don't think popularity is a good way to gauge truth, but since you ask this question, I should point out that he and this policy are both less popular than you imply. He lost the popular vote, his popularity dropped significantly after that, and his approval rating is well below his disapproval rating. His approval has been dropping steadily since the shutdown.

If there is an emergency that the wall can fix, I think he should tell us what it is. If there isn't an emergency, why did he shut down the government?
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Re: Is there a security crisis at the Southwest border?

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Valerie wrote:Why do you think the American people believed this to begin with? Who was giving President Trump the information that made this so important to him?
Pollsters, focus groups, and campaign strategists, I imagine. Crowds who responded when he tried this message out on them. Use that rhetoric to get people scared of Honduran asylum seekers - that's campaigning, and it has nothing at all to do with inside information.

But that's my imagination. I have to speculate because that's all we have. If there's information behind this, someone should tell us what it is. Ever call 911? "What is the nature of your emergency?"
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Re: Is there a security crisis at the Southwest border?

Post by GaryK »

Bootstrap wrote:
GaryK wrote:Obama's Border Patrol chief unequivocally says there is a national security crisis.
He does. He doesn't state what exactly the national security crisis is. I would really like some specifics here. Why is it suddenly a crisis in a way it hasn't been for the last 2 years? What changed after they came to agreement in December and Trump said he would sign the new budget? Did something change in the security situation? If we have a security crisis so severe that we have to shut down the government, what exactly is that crisis, and when did it occur? If we're talking about the wall, I assume this is a crisis that the wall actually prevents.

An organization of law enforcement officials and mayors in MacAllen, Texas, where he held the press conference at the start of your video, is saying that MacAllen is one of the safest cities in Texas and they do not have a national security crisis.

So how do we sort this out? I don't think campaign rallies will help us get to the truth. Someone has to go in and systematically put some information together.
I don't think Obama's Border Patrol chief was at a campaign rally when he said what he said. Why not have faith that he knows what he's talking about?
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