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Szdfan wrote: It’s not just liberals that associate MAGA with racism. Racists apparently also associate MAGA as confirmation of their racism.

Given what we know now I am wondering if you are willing to walk this back?

HondurasKeiser wrote:

Szdfan wrote: It’s not just liberals that associate MAGA with racism. Racists apparently also associate MAGA as confirmation of their racism.

Given what we know now I am wondering if you are willing to walk this back?

Amen and amen.

In related news, it's a crime to fake a crime.
Jussie Smollett is under arrest, in custody of Chicago police

HondurasKeiser wrote:

Szdfan wrote: It’s not just liberals that associate MAGA with racism. Racists apparently also associate MAGA as confirmation of their racism.

Given what we know now I am wondering if you are willing to walk this back?

I’m willing to walk this back in this particular case. I’m upset about the Smollett hoax. That being said, I would maintain that there are plenty of other non-faked cases where MAGA is associated white supremacy. One high-profile hoax doesn’t absolve all those other times. Smollett played on those associations.

Three recent high-profile hate crime hoaxes:

Smollett, the Indian non-veteran, and the arsonist non-man.

Szdfan wrote:

HondurasKeiser wrote:

Szdfan wrote: It’s not just liberals that associate MAGA with racism. Racists apparently also associate MAGA as confirmation of their racism.

Given what we know now I am wondering if you are willing to walk this back?

I’m willing to walk this back in this particular case. I’m upset about the Smollett hoax. That being said, I would maintain that there are plenty of other non-faked cases where MAGA is associated white supremacy. One high-profile hoax doesn’t absolve all those other times. Smollett played on those associations.

i see “people maintain” such assertions, allegations, but without facts.
i see plenty of incidents like this one below, where people wearing these hats are attacked in various ways, from verbal to physical, to relinquishing personal privileges, etc. (this thread is a lot about that imbalance.)

“Man, 81, Wearing Red MAGA Hat Assaulted Inside New Jersey Shop Rite, Prosecutors Say”
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/02/26 ... t-assault/

so far, no one is suggesting this elderly man is pulling a hoax.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/0 ... ctims.html

To be sure, Jussie Smollett’s name will doubtless be invoked for years to come as a means of distraction and evasion whenever the subjects of hate crimes, anti-gay prejudice, racism, or believing victims comes up. But the sort of people who believe that racism isn’t that bad, that gay bashing isn’t real, that victims are often liars, and that liberals are dummies for caring would have believed those things with or without his help. The sorts of people who scoff at the idea of hate crimes don’t do it because a high-profile case turned out to be a hoax—they seize on hoaxes and whatever else they can find because they politically oppose civil rights.

If it was important to such people that the Jussie Smollett case was a hoax, then it would be important that the case of Robin A. Rhodes, who in January 2017 assaulted a woman wearing a hijab yelling “Trump is here now. He will get rid of you,” was not a hoax. Or that the case in Florida later in 2017, where Brandon Ray Davis yelled anti-gay slurs and “You’re in Trump country now,” as he ran down two gay men with his scooter was not a hoax. Or that Trump said there were very fine people on both sides in Charlottesville, Virginia, even though one side consisted of violent white supremacists, one of whom murdered a woman.

Szdfan wrote:https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/0 ... ctims.html

To be sure, Jussie Smollett’s name will doubtless be invoked for years to come as a means of distraction and evasion whenever the subjects of hate crimes, anti-gay prejudice, racism, or believing victims comes up. But the sort of people who believe that racism isn’t that bad, that gay bashing isn’t real, that victims are often liars, and that liberals are dummies for caring would have believed those things with or without his help. The sorts of people who scoff at the idea of hate crimes don’t do it because a high-profile case turned out to be a hoax—they seize on hoaxes and whatever else they can find because they politically oppose civil rights.

If it was important to such people that the Jussie Smollett case was a hoax, then it would be important that the case of Robin A. Rhodes, who in January 2017 assaulted a woman wearing a hijab yelling “Trump is here now. He will get rid of you,” was not a hoax. Or that the case in Florida later in 2017, where Brandon Ray Davis yelled anti-gay slurs and “You’re in Trump country now,” as he ran down two gay men with his scooter was not a hoax. Or that Trump said there were very fine people on both sides in Charlottesville, Virginia, even though one side consisted of violent white supremacists, one of whom murdered a woman.

As soon as people can actually quote President Trump for racist remarks we will pay attention-

WHile I do agree with SZDfan that there are some cases of hatred coming from the extreme right, they are matched by the hatred coming from the extreme left. Neither is acceptable.

Here is a video interview of Dr Saad who I think brings out a really good point about why the MAGA slogan seems so vitriol to many. It is not a real long video, so I suggest watching the entire thing before commenting on the video itself or any parts of it.

[video][/video]

Robert wrote:WHile I do agree with SZDfan that there are some cases of hatred coming from the extreme right, they are matched by the hatred coming from the extreme left. Neither is acceptable.

agreed. the furthest that line can be stretched is, “there are examples of wrong-doing on both sides.” but that doesn’t mean offenses are equal at any given moment. naturally, the line will wax+wane -

in other posts, Josh, and HK, appleman, and others, have described how presently, the left is overall more aggressive, more combative, less tolerant, not attempting diplomacy, all-this, top-down, not solely attributed to the fringes. (no, Jeremy, i do not accept that DJT’s few words about Charlottesville to be proof-positive he is a white supremicist. and, neither should you.)

thing is.
a whole lot of conservative and liberal people sacrificed a whole lot in real life to end white supremecy, no one wants to return. yes, some authentically fringe individuals and small groups continued to exist .. north of me in SKOKIE IL, these groups might cause a stir now+then .. mostly IGNORED by the majority and media, UNTIL some decided to pick it up and run with it for political divisiveness.

you either BITE or you choose not to bite. the bait is put right in front of you. stop biting.
stop accusing those not biting of not caring. they care enough NOT to bite.

it is a very bad turn to allow anyone to blame others for their own bad choices.

i hope this MAGA hat thing ends with MAGA hats being freely allowed, just as everywhere i go, i have to put up with seeing those ugly gaudy rainbow political logos. for me, they are blasphemy.
i have not protested, or torn one down, or other. yes, i do pray they will go far away.

evidently, libs feel entitled to do all the insulting behavior they care to, citing free speech, etc.
they must not have thought ahead that one day they might be faced with something not delightful to their senses, and are unprepared to cope with it.

i do not own a MAGA hat, nor do i ever expect to. they mean nothing to me.

but, in our world where blasphemy is allowed, where flag-burning is allowed, and all the rest -
there is no valid case against freedom to wear MAGA hats. nonsense.

when you break the law, YOU broke the law. no hat made you do it.

if that ^^ is allowed, next up, “i raped her - she made me do it.” no.
‘been there, done that. not a place to go back to.

Robert wrote:WHile I do agree with SZDfan that there are some cases of hatred coming from the extreme right, they are matched by the hatred coming from the extreme left. Neither is acceptable.

Here is a video interview of Dr Saad who I think brings out a really good point about why the MAGA slogan seems so vitriol to many. It is not a real long video, so I suggest watching the entire thing before commenting on the video itself or any parts of it.

[video][/video]

This is not the right clip. I am working on finding the right one.