Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 1:39 pm
Wait until Ken learns about the invention of the diesel-electric locomotive.
All locomotives are driven by electric motors since the end of the steam era. They would blow out their transmissions if they tried to do direct drive from diesel engines to start and haul massively heavy trains. So the diesel engines on locomotives are just electrical generators.
Regardless of whether they are diesel-electric or pure electric driven by overhead catenary wires, all types of train transport is hugely more efficient than trucks. Diesel-electric locomotives are about 4-times more fuel efficient than trucks, electric locomotives even more so.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 1:39 pm
Wait until Ken learns about the invention of the diesel-electric locomotive.
All locomotives are driven by electric motors since the end of the steam era. They would blow out their transmissions if they tried to do direct drive from diesel engines to start and haul massively heavy trains. So the diesel engines on locomotives are just electrical generators.
Regardless of whether they are diesel-electric or pure electric driven by overhead catenary wires, all types of train transport is hugely more efficient than trucks. Diesel-electric locomotives are about 4-times more fuel efficient than trucks, electric locomotives even more so.
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 1:36 pm
As for India? Even if India's electricity was 100% generated by diesel, it would still be vastly more efficient to use electric locomotives to transport freight compared to diesel trucks because trains are vastly more efficient than trucks.
That's not what Mike's question was about.
Mike asked how we can replace diesel reefer units. One way would be with refrigerated freight containers running on electricity. At least for long-haul freight. Reefer containers are plugged in and run on electricity when on board ships and in port. No reason they can't do so on trains as well if the trains are powered by overhead wires.
Like I said. I'm not claiming any of this is going to happen fast. Or even could happen fast. Only that it would be a good thing to de-link our economy from the world oil market. Both environmentally and economically.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:02 pm
Mike asked how we can replace diesel reefer units. One way would be with refrigerated freight containers running on electricity. At least for long-haul freight. Reefer containers are plugged in and run on electricity when on board ships and in port. No reason they can't do so on trains as well if the trains are powered by overhead wires.
I'm sure you have thought about how the electricity gets from the catenary to the container. Of course, electrification is virtually nonexistent on freight railroads in North America, so take your time.
Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:06 pm
I'd like to see more jobs and more production right here in the USA, instead of a massive trade deficit and a lack of good jobs.
Me too. But that will, of course, raise prices if American workers are paid better than workers in China or Bangledesh. Ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
Last edited by Bootstrap on Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 1:36 pm
As for India? Even if India's electricity was 100% generated by diesel, it would still be vastly more efficient to use electric locomotives to transport freight compared to diesel trucks because trains are vastly more efficient than trucks.
That's not what Mike's question was about.
Mike asked how we can replace diesel reefer units. One way would be with refrigerated freight containers running on electricity. At least for long-haul freight. Reefer containers are plugged in and run on electricity when on board ships and in port. No reason they can't do so on trains as well if the trains are powered by overhead wires.
Like I said. I'm not claiming any of this is going to happen fast. Or even could happen fast. Only that it would be a good thing to de-link our economy from the world oil market. Both environmentally and economically.
Refrigerated train cars run on diesel. The units are often literally the same as semi-trailers; I have two reefer trailers right now with units that were formerly on refrigerated train cars. Same with reefers on refrigerated sea containers. Diesel. Now you are right, 70% of reefer units have electric backup, but that is what the electric side is used for. Backup. It is not practical to run heavy 50 amp 220 volt cables to every singe reefer unit on a train or ship.
Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:06 pm
I'd like to see more jobs and more production right here in the USA, instead of a massive trade deficit and a lack of good jobs.
Me too. But that will, of course, raise prices if American workers are paid better than workers in China or Bangledesh.
If American workers are being paid fairly, we can also afford to pay a fair price for manufactured goods.
We don't need to be a country of $2 waffle irons at Wal-Mart on Black Friday.
Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 6:29 am
No, they don't. Tariffs do not raise prices.
Tariffs mean that the government collects a tax on imported goods.
Your claim is equivalent to claiming that sales tax raises prices.
I don't understand this at all. Suppose something costs $1.00. If you add a 10% tariff to that, I think the price goes up to $1.10. If there is no tariff, but there's a 10% sales tax, I have to pay $1.10 to buy the same thing. If you have both a tariff and a sales tax, I have to pay $1.11. If an American worker adds 10% to the cost because of better pay ...
Unless some vendor decides to eat some of the cost, perhaps because people won't pay that much.
Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:06 pm
I'd like to see more jobs and more production right here in the USA, instead of a massive trade deficit and a lack of good jobs.
Me too. But that will, of course, raise prices if American workers are paid better than workers in China or Bangledesh.
If American workers are being paid fairly, we can also afford to pay a fair price for manufactured goods.
We don't need to be a country of $2 waffle irons at Wal-Mart on Black Friday.
If someone works full time, they shouldn't need food stamps, because they should be paid well and have health insurance. If I have to pay taxes to support full time workers, my taxes are subsidizing private businesses so they can exploit their workers.
And that will raise prices considerably. Our economy is built on treating unskilled workers like dirt. Cheap above everything else. But I'd rather pay people fair wages up front, directly, than pay indirectly through taxes and subsidies.
Last edited by Bootstrap on Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 6:29 am
No, they don't. Tariffs do not raise prices.
Tariffs mean that the government collects a tax on imported goods.
Your claim is equivalent to claiming that sales tax raises prices.
I don't understand this at all. Suppose something costs $1.00. If you add a 10% tariff to that, I think the price goes up to $1.10. If there is no tariff, but there's a 10% sales tax, I have to pay $1.10 to buy the same thing. If you have both a tariff and a sales tax, I have to pay $1.11. If an American worker adds 10% to the cost because of better pay ...
Unless some vendor decides to eat some of the cost, perhaps because people won't pay that much.
Or the vendor starts selling it for 91¢ and it still costs $1.00.
A tariff simply means domestic producers get an advantage, which may be significant when the playing field has been so stacked that there haven't been any domestic playing fields. American businesses have to pay minimum wage and can't use slave labour, which puts them at a distinct disadvantage to China.
I think levelling that playing field is the right thing to do.