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RZehr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:48 am

Josh wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:45 am What’s more important?

Military readiness? Officers getting promoted to top brass so they can get fatter pay checks and then go on to lucrative consulting careers?

Or little babies being mangled and aborted?

I wonder how many generals the military had in WW2, with that size of military, and this country being at war, compared to today, peacetime, smaller military, and no war.
I don’t see why halting promotions is a bad thing either.

Promotions are mostly to replace people who are retiring or moving on to other things. The military has mandatory retirement ages so you don't just have old people sitting in positions indefinitely like you do in the civilian world. People are constantly retiring and the next generation is constantly being promoted to fill those spots.

As for your question about WW2? A quick bit of research tells me that there was about 1 general for every 2000 troops during WW2 compared with today where there is about 1 general for every 1400 troops. But commands are also somewhat different today with a lot more specialty commands scattered around the world compared to WW2 when there were lots more infantry-heavy divisions. In other words, today's military units have more sophisticated equipment and tasks and less troops compared to WW2. Same as in every other aspect of life where technology has reduced manual labor.

… so we need more chiefs? Seems to me the officer corps basically has become the equivalent of “welfare queens” except for wealthy, well-connected people.

Our military should be the size of Germany’s or Spain’s. We aren’t at war with Mexico or Canada.

Josh wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:52 am … so we need more chiefs? Seems to me the officer corps basically has become the equivalent of “welfare queens” except for wealthy, well-connected people.

Tell us that you know nothing about the military without telling us that you know nothing about the military....

It is fine if you have a conscientious objection to military service. Many Anabaptists do. But that isn't a license to denigrate the choices and professions of others.

Ken wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:01 pm

Josh wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:52 am … so we need more chiefs? Seems to me the officer corps basically has become the equivalent of “welfare queens” except for wealthy, well-connected people.

Tell us that you know nothing about the military without telling us that you know nothing about the military....

It is fine if you have a conscientious objection to military service. Many Anabaptists do. But that isn't a license to denigrate the choices and professions of others.

Are you familiar at all with the state of the officer corps?

The question is a very good one of why MORE generals are needed in peacetime than when at war.

It is so interesting watching as this sea change happens in real time.
Republicans becoming anti-military, anti-war, while Democrats become pro-military and pro-war.
While the military enjoys a more woke, liberal, inclusive reputation.
Republicans pro-Russia, Democrats anti-Russia.

I'd like to see all the aircraft carriers cut up and reshaped as tractors and plows.

Josh wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:02 pm Are you familiar at all with the state of the officer corps?

The question is a very good one of why MORE generals are needed in peacetime than when at war.

Much more familiar than you apparently. It isn't a question of wartime vs. peacetime. And, in fact, there were 10x more officers serving during WW2 because the Army was much larger.

But the military is no different from any other aspect of life in terms of technology replacing human labor.

The largest combat unit in the Army that operates autonomously is the combat brigade, usually commanded by a one-star or brigadier general. They are usually between 2-5 thousand soldiers. Divisions are made up of multiple combat brigades.

During WW2, a combat brigade would have been staffed with hundreds upon hundreds of support staff. Clerk typists who are typing up every order and notice in triplicate with carbon paper. Switchboard operators manually routing calls throughout the brigade and to other units. Radio operators manually communicating and transcribing orders and messages. Mess hall cooks preparing meals from scratch. Fleets of mechanics keeping vehicles operational, platoons of soldiers handling shipments of equipment by hand, and so forth.





Today most of those jobs are gone. Officers type their own commands on laptops and send them electronically. Computers route all digital communications rather than switchboard and radio operators. Meals are often pre-packaged and dining halls are run by contractors, equipment is more modular and they just ship swap out engines and ship them back to repair factories rather than doing things like overhaul transmissions and engines on the front lines. Equipment is packaged on pallets and shipped in containers rather than trucks loaded by hand. And combat itself is far more mechanized. So a combat brigade that would have had hundreds of soldiers working in support rules to support thousands of infantry solders armed with rifles is now far more mechanized and efficient. Yet it still does the same thing as in WW2 and is still commanded by a brigadier general, but with less troops at risk on the front line.

Does that mean the military has gotten more top heavy in terms of command? Or does that mean increases in productivity and technology mean less soldiers are needed at the front to keep a military unit operational?

It is no different from the efficiencies and mechanization that have changed every other industry from agriculture to logging to mining to steelmaking.

^^oops. ken+his Big Pictures.

RZehr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:48 am
.. I don’t see why halting promotions is a bad thing either.

i hope it’s not too much longer before people begin to wake up to how efficiently they are being manipulated,
down to miniscule details.

It’s ridiculous, but, it is also: PRACTICE.

RZehr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:31 pm It is so interesting watching as this sea change happens in real time.
Republicans becoming anti-military, anti-war, while Democrats become pro-military and pro-war.
While the military enjoys a more woke, liberal, inclusive reputation.
Republicans pro-Russia, Democrats anti-Russia.

It is interesting but not novel. I saw conservatives switch from Democratic to Republican in the south, I saw the immigration debate switch sides in the late 90's. Universal Medicare style healthcare switched sides. The blue collar white folks I work around were red white and blue forever 10 years ago and mocked me as anti American. Now they want to tear the government down and wonder why I am not angry at the system. I was mildly mocked for reserving support for the wars on terror by the same people who are pro -russia and hate the war in Ukraine. If you live long enough and keep your eyes open, you will see the pattern repeats.

barnhart wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:54 pm

RZehr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:31 pm It is so interesting watching as this sea change happens in real time.
Republicans becoming anti-military, anti-war, while Democrats become pro-military and pro-war.
While the military enjoys a more woke, liberal, inclusive reputation.
Republicans pro-Russia, Democrats anti-Russia.

It is interesting but not novel. I saw conservatives switch from Democratic to Republican in the south, I saw the immigration debate switch sides in the late 90's. Universal Medicare style healthcare switched sides. The blue collar white folks I work around were red white and blue forever 10 years ago and mocked me as anti American. Now they want to tear the government down and wonder why I am not angry at the system. I was mildly mocked for reserving support for the wars on terror by the same people who are pro -russia and hate the war in Ukraine. If you live long enough and keep your eyes open, you will see the pattern repeats.

I believe that. I was aware of the conservatives switching from Democrat to Republican - (Abe Lincoln?). But I've never seen it in real time except for now. I wonder how long these shifts take to make. 12 years? 20 years?