Election Investigations

[Robert]

Take the evidence to court. Prove your case. Then it becomes newsworthy. Until then, the only newsworthy thing is that lots of claims are being made without evidence.

SO 3 years of Russia hoax should not have been talked about here or anywhere. It never went to court. A few small indictments came out of the Mueller investigations, but nothing major. So you should have never claimed or posted anything about that and questioned Trump's involvement.

I expect an apology or a retraction ... so you can be consistent.

I am sure we will get neither.

[temporal1]

I am sure we will get neither.

That would be inconsistent.

Bill Clinton normalized, “never admit to anything, never back down, NEVER leave office.”
Law schools teach it.

The ripple effect has devastated the culture.

This is why i dread the ripple effect of elections won with “THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS” philosophy. You may “win.” But, what have you lost in the process?

[RZehr]

I was pleased that there was no widespread violence or chaos during the election itself.

That is because the side - conservative -, that values order, self discipline, objectivity and responsibility lost. Had the side that excuses chaos, acts out of emotions/feelings, and acting as toddlers in the streets (streets, not White House. Location matters. ) lost the election there would most certainly be widespread chaos and property damage and violence.

[Bootstrap]

I was pleased that there was no widespread violence or chaos during the election itself.

That is because the side - conservative -, that values order, self discipline, objectivity and responsibility lost. Had the side that excuses chaos, acts out of emotions/feelings, and acting as toddlers in the streets (streets, not White House. Location matters. ) lost the election there would most certainly be widespread chaos and property damage and violence.

Well, we won't know if you are right or not. This is not going to be a controlled clinical trial, that condition is not being tested.

Do you think Trumpism values order, self-discipline, objectivity and responsibility? Do you think Trump is characterized by these things? These are all things that I value.

Don't you think there are extremists on both sides of the political spectrum that do not value these things?

[Dan Z]

I'd be glad for the country to take some time to see that any election fraud (left or right) is rooted out to the extent that it exists, and is prosecuted fully.

By this morning's count, there is about a 120,000-vote lead for Biden in the closest five states (GA, PA, AZ, NV, WI). This means that, at a minimum, a targeted and one-sided multi-state 100,000-vote conspiracy needs to be exposed in order to overturn the election. While that's a small number relative to the 150-million-vote whole, it represents an unprecedented and coordinated fraud effort that should not be to difficult to root out based on its enormity. Trump (and his supporters) seem convinced it exists, but have produced little substantive evidence so far - so the onus is on them to legally prove this beyond a reasonable doubt.

In the meantime, the rest of us look on and see a growing 4.5 million popular vote lead for Biden, a country with a consistent 250-year record of free and fair elections, a potentially sizable electoral college victory (306 - 233), and a president who, frankly, reminds some of us of the kid in the playground who loses at 4-square and instinctively shouts "Cheater!"

One final consideration - this was an extremely emotional battle, and a bitter blow for Trump and his supporters. An additional benefit of taking time here to let objections and investigations play out (aside from exposing fraud) is to give folks a chance to come to terms with the loss. People need space to work this through. In this sense, it is smart that the constitution gives a few months of transition between election and inauguration.

[Ken]

Well, this one isn't starting out too well.

If these are the people they are are turning to for proof of election fraud....

https://www.politico.com/states/new-jer ... er-1335241

The first person Rudy Giuliani, the attorney for President Donald Trump, called up as a witness to baseless allegations of vote counting shenanigans in Philadelphia during a press conference last week is a sex offender who for years has been a perennial candidate in New Jersey.

“It’s such a shame. This is a democracy,” Daryl Brooks, who said he was a GOP poll watcher, said at the press conference, held at Four Seasons Total Landscaping in Northeast Philadelphia. “They did not allow us to see anything. Was it corrupt or not? But give us an opportunity as poll watchers to view all the documents — all of the ballots.”

Trenton political insiders watched with bemusement as Brooks took the podium.

Brooks was incarcerated in the 1990s on charges of sexual assault, lewdness and endangering the welfare of a minor for exposing himself to two girls ages 7 and 11, according to news accounts.

Brooks has run for various offices, including U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives.

“I started watching it and all of a sudden I was like, ‘there’s New Jersey’s perennial candidate claiming to live in Philadelphia and Giuliani claiming him to be a poll watcher and Philadelphia resident," Trenton Mayor Reed Gusciora said in a phone interview.

James Gee, chief of staff to U.S. Rep. Bonnie Watson Coleman (D-N.J.), also said he immediately recognized Brooks.

“Yeah, I know Daryl. It’s so fitting that he would be there,” Gee said.

Gee said he believed Brooks was hired for Hillary Clinton‘s campaign in 2016.

“People don’t pay attention to who they hire. They’re just trying to get bodies, particularly if it’s a white organizer,” said Gee, who’s Black. “And this time apparently, I guess he was on the Republican side of the watchers.“

[temporal1]

I was pleased that there was no widespread violence or chaos during the election itself.

That is because the side - conservative -, that values order, self discipline, objectivity and responsibility lost. Had the side that excuses chaos, acts out of emotions/feelings, and acting as toddlers in the streets (streets, not White House. Location matters. ) lost the election there would most certainly be widespread chaos and property damage and violence.

RZehr:
You are in Oregon. Were you aware?

boot:
.. I was pleased that there was no widespread violence or chaos during the election itself. I hope that will continue. But I worry about this kind of thing. Using legal channels and evidence is important.

you were pleased to ignore what did happen, by predictable libs.
are you in deep prayer that conservatives are going to fulfill your allegations? you seem to be.

how many times will you repeat these disparaging-to-Trump projections? (lighting fires?)

Portland
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-ne ... n-portland

Protesters in Washington, Los Angeles, Raleigh, Portland take to the streets amid Election Night vote tallies
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 127939002/

My prediction was and remains, “acting out” will continue no matter who is elected.
There is MORE than enough discord IN the DNC to ensure that much.

i told my family, these “civilian” rioters are NOT like a trained military, that can effectively be called on and off. they aren’t going to just go home and behave themselves. they are not prepared for that.

[Ken]

What it's really about then

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 202250002/

In the Trump campaign's latest push to raise money for its "election defense" fund, at least half of any donation could go toward paying down debt for the president's campaign, according to the fine print.

The Trump campaign has mounted legal challenges in several battleground states that show Democratic challenger Joe Biden ahead as votes continue to be tallied in the tightly contested presidential race, including Michigan, Pennsylvania and Georgia.

Over the last four days, the Trump campaign as well as the Republican National Committee have sent a flurry of text messages and emails urging supporters to contribute to the president's court challenges.

"President Trump is FIGHTING BACK to defend the integrity of this Election, but he can't do it alone," one email reads. "He needs YOU to step up and join him by contributing to our critical Election Defense Fund."

But a disclaimer on the website states that 50% of any donation will go toward the campaign's general election debt retirement and the other half toward the campaign's recount account, the Wall Street Journal first reported.

A separate fundraising effort by the "Trump Make America Great Again Committee" states that 60% of contributions will go toward campaign debt while 40% goes to the RNC.

[Robert]

Do you think Trumpism values order, self-discipline, objectivity and responsibility?

Define Trumpism and where did you hear it except from the Lincoln Project? It is some new made up word that is supposed to keep the anger towards Trump and keep the pressure on conservatives.

I find your use to be a clear tell of your bias and political leanings.

[temporal1]

.. One final consideration - this was an extremely emotional battle, and a bitter blow for Trump and his supporters. An additional benefit of taking time here to let objections and investigations play out (aside from exposing fraud) is to give folks a chance to come to terms with the loss. People need space to work this through. In this sense, it is smart that the constitution gives a few months of transition between election and inauguration.

2016’s ugly losers are quickly morphing into 2020’s ugly “winners.”

The battles within the DNC will preclude any possibility of quiet. Fighting a common enemy masked a boat-load of internal problems. Normalizing dirty fighting, destruction, violence will haunt them.