Peacemaking after the Election

[temporal1]

Page 14

I was recently encouraged that being a peacemaker requires one to move into conflict, not away from it. Peacemaking by definition is done where conflict exists. This is an area where I would like to grow,

it's easy for me to shake my head and walk away.

That works too, if everyone did that.

[Valerie]

I don't think we need to wait for elections to do peacemaking. But elections sure seem to be a time that more peacemaking is often needed.

I doubt if you will see the two sides come together and be unified ever again.

The United States has almost always had two sides that were pretty far apart. The time after WWII was unusually unified by many standards, as was the time immediately after Watergate. But remember that we had a civil war, and we were at least this divided in the 1960s.

Still, the United States has somehow found ways to come together to work on our most important problems. Right now, Covid-19 and the economy are two of the top problems. Would you like the people elected to run the government to work together to solve these problems? Aren't they important enough to find common ground?

Whether there's peace or not I definitely believe it will be a much more peaceful environment because the right just doesn't behave like we've seen the left behave the last four years for the most part. Therefore it will be peaceful but not unified if Biden is the president. It's mostly because the right will be sorrowful and discouraged, but will accept it without what we saw the left behave like period at least I hope and pray that's the case.

I really do think some people tend to equate the political right with "the forces of good" and the political left with "the forces of evil". Or vice versa, but you don't see much of that on MN. I don't think that is a Kingdom of God perspective.
Not sire how many people on MN jave watched tv to witness the vitreol & behavior of the Left. Reading about it, doesnt convey the footage where people can watch it before their very eyes. There was over a million people in WA DC today shoeing their support for Trump. Peaceful. Praying. Huge difference than the behavior of the Anti-Trumpers. If i was unsure about ye left vs right before, the behavior of gatherings alone speaks volumes
Extremism is extremism. VIolence is violence. Both are bad. The fact that people have different political opinions ... that does not need to cripple our government or make it impossible to function together as a society.
When legalizing sin & abominations, you will undoubtedly find a growing & widening gap thag will prevent unity. You cant expect people yo align themselves to promotion of grievous sin. Under Trump, the pro-life tireless work was gaining some victory. There was hope for the unborn. The government is, & will remain, crippled until repentance occurs
The world doesn't get us. That's not the same thing as persecution. The United States is pretty friendly to religious minorities, and true Christians are a religious minority.
Remember you said this later boot

I dont think the right will ever believe it was a fair election, too many people have shared their personal experiences. Truly a party that believes in murdering infants, has no problem cheating,dont you think?

How convinced are you that Donald Trump would be unwilling to cheat? Do you think he has a history of cheating?
Sad that you dont realizehow Biden & Harris got where they are, i saw a Mennonite i highly respect pist about Harris. Of course the world may never het to see the outcome of Biden family investigations- but we know. Somethings you just know in your heart of hearts, deep down. .
How convinced are you that the vivid stories people spread about "the other side" on the Internet are reliable information that we can trust?

Elections shouldn't be based on trusting the candidates to play fair. We have been running elections for 250 years now, teaching other countries how to do so, criticizing countries that do not have the same safeguards we do. If there is real evidence of fraud, let it be presented in court. So far, that has not been happening. Certainly not on any scale that would change the results of the election.

Not sure we will ever get to the bottom of all the fraudulant claims, but i can say this, i dont think any Republican will ever believe the results. Proven in courts or not. I've never in my 43 years of voting, witnessed anything like this. We can accept a legitimate outcome. Not this one. But we accept God is allowing this, & is Sovereign. Aligning with the policies of the left? We cant & wont, and a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. If there's repentance for the sin thats been legalized, perhaps. God has been longsuffering

[JimFoxvog]

There was over a million people in WA DC today shoeing their support for Trump. Peaceful. Praying. Huge difference than the behavior of the Anti-Trumpers. If i was unsure about ye left vs right before, the behavior of gatherings alone speaks volumes

Thousands, not over a million.

Kayleigh McEnany busted after boasting ‘More than one MILLION marchers’ showed up in DC for the MAGA rally
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/kaylei ... aga-rally/

Not Peaceful.

After thousands of Trump supporters rally in D.C., violence erupts when night falls
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... -protests/

Violence erupts as thousands rally behind Trump in Washington, DC
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/11/ ... washington

[Valerie]

There was over a million people in WA DC today shoeing their support for Trump. Peaceful. Praying. Huge difference than the behavior of the Anti-Trumpers. If i was unsure about ye left vs right before, the behavior of gatherings alone speaks volumes

Thousands, not over a million.

Kayleigh McEnany busted after boasting ‘More than one MILLION marchers’ showed up in DC for the MAGA rally
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/kaylei ... aga-rally/

Not Peaceful.

After thousands of Trump supporters rally in D.C., violence erupts when night falls
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... -protests/

Violence erupts as thousands rally behind Trump in Washington, DC
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/11/ ... washington

Antifa & Black Lives Matter showed up to bring trouble. This WAS a peaceful demonstratipn & the usual troublemakers showed up. I never sawa bigger show of support for any president in the streets of Washington DC on such short notice I didn't even hear about it till after I saw the pictures of it so whether it was close to a million or what I don't think anyone took a head count the pictures make it obvious there was a great deal of support for the present President of the United States. I'm sure it would have been a lot larger have there been a lot more notice because not everyone can show up in Washington DC however the violence came from the people that always are violent that would be the Biden supporters.

[temporal1]

Valerie:
Antifa & Black Lives Matter showed up to bring trouble.
This WAS a peaceful demonstratipn & the usual troublemakers showed up.

I never sawa bigger show of support for any president in the streets of Washington DC on such short notice I didn't even hear about it till after I saw the pictures of it so whether it was close to a million or what I don't think anyone took a head count the pictures make it obvious there was a great deal of support for the present President of the United States.

I'm sure it would have been a lot larger have there been a lot more notice because not everyone can show up in Washington DC

however the violence came from the people that always are violent that would be the Biden supporters.

NICK SANDMANN, anyone? A Catholic teen attending MARCH FOR LIFE on a school outing??

The word, “million” is frequently used to mean, “A LOT.” Often, nowhere near a counted million.
Decades ago, my beloved elderly neighbor “took me aside,” to impress on me how far off we children were as we frequently used “million” to mean far less than an actual million. A LOT.
It’s a real number, AND, it’s a long established figure of speech.

But, Valerie, when folks go about literally burning, looting, demanding, “DEFUND THE POLICE,” with city councils voting to do just that, robbing public funds - we patsies are assured:

“They didn’t really mean defund the police!” NOPE. How would anyone get that wild notion??

As Grace repeats: DOUBLE STANDARDS. Everyday, all day long.

i, also, saw nothing of this MAGA march prior to this post in this thread. (i take your word for it.)
i take jim’s word for the exaggeration+exploitation of the highly biased mainstream.
i pray for jim. his path is not an easy one. i don’t doubt good intentions.

Mainstream news:


From what i’ve witnessed, Kayleigh McEnany does a nice job. She focuses on questions, does not get side-tracked, is thoughtful, competent, in control of emotions. Never vile.

i pray these admirable traits hold as new conservative women take their elected positions in Congress. i pray lib females decide to acquire similar traits, turning away from proud+vile as their go-to communication style.

[Bootstrap]

Not sure we will ever get to the bottom of all the fraudulant claims

Of course we will, if there is any evidence of fraud. Someone just has to provide that evidence. So far, the lawsuits aren't providing it. What we are seeing in court is a different reality than the claims in the Twitter storm, demonstrations, and fundraising efforts.

but i can say this, i dont think any Republican will ever believe the results. Proven in courts or not. I've never in my 43 years of voting, witnessed anything like this.

You may be right. Under Trump, the Republican Party may have reached the point that many people do not accept elections, the courts, investigations, the rule of law, or anything else along those lines unless Trump wins. Under Trump, groups like QAnon, the Three Percenters, the Oath Keepers, and the Proud Boys are no longer seen as extremists who should be denounced in the same way they denounce Antifa.

We can accept a legitimate outcome. Not this one.

Isn't a legitimate outcome determined by the votes that were cast, unless someone can demonstrate fraud in court? How would you respond if Trump had won and the Democrats were acting this way?

But we accept God is allowing this, & is Sovereign. Aligning with the policies of the left? We cant & wont, and a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. If there's repentance for the sin thats been legalized, perhaps. God has been longsuffering

God's Kingdom is not about political parties, and never was. God has not called Donald Trump his anointed one, appointed for our salvation. God's Kingdom needs to unite behind God.

The United States needs to unite under whatever sitting president and congress it has at a given time to solve basic problems like the Covid-19 crisis and the economic crisis. If we don't, we are in real trouble. If Christians are seen as the people who trashed American democracy, that won't be a great witness.

[Bootstrap]

The world doesn't get us. That's not the same thing as persecution. The United States is pretty friendly to religious minorities, and true Christians are a religious minority.

Remember you said this later boot

Sure. I'm speaking of my experience since the 1970s, hearing claims that Christians are in serious danger of persecution any time now.

I think we need to do the hard work of thinking how we live in a country that really doesn't grasp a lot of what Christianity is about. But I really don't expect gulags and all these other things people are imagining. And if these things do happen, other things will happen first, there will be signs along the way.

[Bootstrap]

There was over a million people in WA DC today shoeing their support for Trump. Peaceful. Praying. Huge difference than the behavior of the Anti-Trumpers. If i was unsure about ye left vs right before, the behavior of gatherings alone speaks volumes

Lots of similarities, actually. During the day, peaceful protests, some people praying, a mixture of groups that include extremists but no violence. During the night, the extremists get violent. The BLM protests started with low levels of violence that then escalated, I hope violence does not escalate at these rallies.

Any time you see the Proud Boys and Antifa at the same events, violence is likely. They bait each other, and each side will blame the other. We should not support Proud Boys, Three Percenters, Oath Keepers, or Antifa. Let's not support violent extremist groups on either side.

[Bootstrap]

I agree. I think we are not blessed by heavily consuming political news and media.

Especially the stuff that plays "us" versus "them" narratives along partisan lines, keeps people's stomachs churning, and contains little verifiable fact.

If you want to track the economy, a boring unemotional website like St. Louis FRED is efficient and objective. If you want to track weather, there are weather sites. If you want to track election results, there are sites that provide efficient graphics and track the current state of play.

If you want to track domestic violence and terrorism, there are HHA and FBI reports that look at both sides.

To me, the real problem comes when people promote one of the political sides as though it were the Kingdom of God, accept the world view of their media outlets with little question, and question anybody who does not. If Christians simply abstain from the whole realm of politics, fine. If we choose to weigh in, we need to do better than the kind of stuff you hear on partisan media. And we need to find calm ways to discuss these things from different perspectives to sort out facts from propaganda.

We certainly need to avoid treating any political figure as God's anointed savior.

[Valerie]

There was over a million people in WA DC today shoeing their support for Trump. Peaceful. Praying. Huge difference than the behavior of the Anti-Trumpers. If i was unsure about ye left vs right before, the behavior of gatherings alone speaks volumes

Lots of similarities, actually. During the day, peaceful protests, some people praying, a mixture of groups that include extremists but no violence. During the night, the extremists get violent. The BLM protests started with low levels of violence that then escalated, I hope violence does not escalate at these rallies.

Any time you see the Proud Boys and Antifa at the same events, violence is likely. They bait each other, and each side will blame the other. We should not support Proud Boys, Three Percenters, Oath Keepers, or Antifa. Let's not support violent extremist groups on either side.

There was absolutely no reason for Antifa and Black Lives Matter to show up at the rally in Washington DC to show support for President- Trump. The people appreciate his vision, his accomplishments and the direction he was attempting to take this country which he would have done so much more had he not had all the horrible distractions & Fabrications and attacks from the left. Again Antifa and Black Lives Matter should have stayed away from a support rally for president Trump if they had of there would have been no violence. I'm truly concerned about the fact that the black lives matter organization is going to pressure the Biden Administration to give them what they want period it is an evil-based organization not just about racism I'm sure you've heard their agenda . I watched an interview of the founders of the black lives matter which they have taken down now from the public to be able to see because of the concern it was raising among the public. But they will pressure and are pressuring Biden to give them what they want because they feel he owes them the presidency. Big big mistake.