Victory for Religious Freedom

[temporal1]

I fail to see how what you said means parents should be forced to pay for failing government schools instead of being able to send their children to good quality (and often cheaper) schools.

In my experience, and to my knowledge, there is no “instead of.” No tax exceptions/credits for private or home schools.**

This is important.
It reflects how it’s about more than time+money to make these alternative choices.
Parents SACRIFICE for their children’s ed and well being. MANY more want to than feel they are able. Certainly, teachers unions are not in the business of empowering parents to feel able. They want parent dependence. It’s their job security.

(i expect) this (recognition of positive RESULTS) may be where the idea of charter/magnet schools began - they’ve been around for decades. Even the DOE could see the merits of private schools/home schools! They TRY to compete.

i see it in my grdaughter’s public schools, for sure.
They appropriate one method/concept after another, removing God from every step, never giving credit where credit is due.

Lying by omission of facts.

Imitation is a form of flattery. True enough. Unfortunately, in this case, everything’s at stake.

They end up with some hybrid mish-mash of cultures+religions, with students never knowing what hit them, and what was missing.
Confusion on steroids. “Hybrid mish-mash” pretty well describes contemporary U.S.

Separation of church from state was never intended to devolve into “rule by secularists/atheists.”

Freedom of religion was not meant to be rigid+intolerant freedom from religion.

- - - - - - -

**on this forum, altho the TEMPTATION to accept gov vouchers, tax incentives/credits, etc., is real, i’m not aware of anyone wanting to go that route - for the important reason: to accept tax dollars is to give up rights+controls. Where the gov funds, the gov rules, the exact opposite of parents’ goals. Quickly, the reason to separate dissolves.

So, on this, i’m unsure of Thomas Sowell’s enthusiasm for charter schools. i’m undecided.
His views are compelling. Charter schools would NOT replace the need for private schools and home schools.

[temporal1]

To my understanding, everyone is forced to pay for gov schools.
This means everyone has a vested interest. Parents need not be alone regarding the direction of gov schools.

i think this is largely overlooked.

i haven’t had children in school in decades. the lion’s share of my property taxes go to fund local schools.

[Josh]

To my understanding, everyone is forced to pay for gov schools.
This means everyone has a vested interest. Parents need not be alone regarding the direction of gov schools.

i think this is largely overlooked.

i haven’t had children in school in decades. the lion’s share of my property taxes go to fund local schools.

Correct. I pay for government schools. I also pay for my church's private school, which I don't (yet) use.

I have exactly zero input into how these government schools are run - and neither do any of the other citizens here. We have to do whatever edicts are passed down from state (or federal) levels.

[temporal1]

To my understanding, everyone is forced to pay for gov schools.
This means everyone has a vested interest. Parents need not be alone regarding the direction of gov schools.

i think this is largely overlooked.

i haven’t had children in school in decades. the lion’s share of my property taxes go to fund local schools.

Correct. I pay for government schools. I also pay for my church's private school, which I don't (yet) use.

I have exactly zero input into how these government schools are run - and neither do any of the other citizens here.
We have to do whatever edicts are passed down from state (or federal) levels.

These are your informed faith choices. You have the legal right (and some believe, obligation) to attend school board meetings, to vote, to have an opinion. i believe you are forced by the sword to pay taxes, but paying for your church’s school is legally optional.

i have grey areas. i don’t think i’m alone.
i’ve rarely voted in my life, not for CO reasons, i’ve attended a few board meetings for different reasons, i obey laws, i believe legal U.S. citizens have the right to opinions (whether voting or not, some believe only voters should have opinions).

i admit i’m happy to notice different parents showing up in school board meetings to object to unwanted curricula, texts, library materials, etc. No one is asked if they voted or how they voted. Honestly, i suspect many ignorantly voted for the very things they object to! And/or, didn’t vote. THEY PAY TAXES. i like to suggest: Job 1=Stop voting for it.

i respect your choices. i may get there.

i suppose it’s the formal commitment to ignorance (in the name of ideology) in today’s world that is most stupefying.
whether education, crime, public health, you name it. idol worship in extremes.

[Josh]

To my understanding, everyone is forced to pay for gov schools.
This means everyone has a vested interest. Parents need not be alone regarding the direction of gov schools.

i think this is largely overlooked.

i haven’t had children in school in decades. the lion’s share of my property taxes go to fund local schools.

Correct. I pay for government schools. I also pay for my church's private school, which I don't (yet) use.

I have exactly zero input into how these government schools are run - and neither do any of the other citizens here.
We have to do whatever edicts are passed down from state (or federal) levels.

These are your informed faith choices. You have the legal right (and some believe, obligation) to attend school board meetings, to vote, to have an opinion. i believe you are forced by the sword to pay taxes, but paying for your church’s school is legally optional.

i have grey areas. i don’t think i’m alone.
i’ve rarely voted in my life, not for CO reasons, i’ve attended a few board meetings for different reasons, i obey laws, i believe legal U.S. citizens have the right to opinions (whether voting or not, some believe only voters should have opinions).

i admit i’m happy to notice different parents showing up in school board meetings to object to unwanted curricula, texts, library materials, etc. No one is asked if they voted or how they voted. Honestly, i suspect many ignorantly voted for the very things they object to! And/or, didn’t vote. THEY PAY TAXES. i like to suggest: Job 1=Stop voting for it.

i respect your choices. i may get there.

i suppose it’s the formal commitment to ignorance (in the name of ideology) in today’s world that is most stupefying.
whether education, crime, public health, you name it. idol worship in extremes.

The U.S. government and the media has said that parents who attend school board meetings and oppose the liberal agenda are “terrorists”. The input of parents and taxpayers is not wanted.

[Ken]

And a good enough reason to let the parent's put their children in the schools they choose themselves with the tax monies spent on education.

That isn't the way public services work. We do not individually get to pick and choose which government services we wish to fund with our tax dollars. We do that collectively and democratically when we pass school levies or when state legislatures set budgets.

The Supreme Court disagreed in the Maine decision.

There are endless government programs and services that we all pay for collectively, but do not individually use or benefit from except tangentially. That is what living in a modern society means.

I fail to see how what you said means parents should be forced to pay for failing government schools instead of being able to send their children to good quality (and often cheaper) schools.

The Maine decision had nothing to do with whether individuals sending their kids to private schools could opt-out of paying school taxes. It was about whether public dollars can be used to subsidize private schools in remote areas where public schools do not exist.

Just because you fail to see why why you (or anyone else) should be forced to pay school taxes doesn't mean they are illegitimate. I fail to see why I should be forced to pay for agricultural subsidizes that largely go to big business and wealthy farmers growing commodity crops that I don't eat. But just because "I fail to see" that doesn't mean those taxes are illegitimate.

If you want to have a say in local school taxes and school budgets (and they are largely local in most states) then get involved. Too few people actually vote in these sorts of local elections, and too few people are actually engaged in school finance. Or you can just refuse to pay your property taxes and see what happens. I'm sure the sovereign citizen types will be happy to explain to you how all of that works.

[Ken]

The U.S. government and the media has said that parents who attend school board meetings and oppose the liberal agenda are “terrorists”. The input of parents and taxpayers is not wanted.

No, actually they didn't. Why do you keep asserting this when it has been debunked long ago: https://www.factcheck.org/2022/04/attor ... errorists/

[Outsider]

And a good enough reason to let the parent's put their children in the schools they choose themselves with the tax monies spent on education.

That isn't the way public services work. We do not individually get to pick and choose which government services we wish to fund with our tax dollars.
[/quote]

That's not what I'm saying at all. I think the tax monies given to "public" schools should be given to the parents to send their child where they want. Much different proposition.

I agree, overall, as a libertarian with the disdane you hold most "public services"- the reality that we won't ever be completely rid of them should make streamlining them, making them as cost-effictive and viable for all of the population should be a priority. After all, civilization is- in the end- a collective endeavor.

[Josh]

The U.S. government and the media has said that parents who attend school board meetings and oppose the liberal agenda are “terrorists”. The input of parents and taxpayers is not wanted.

No, actually they didn't. Why do you keep asserting this when it has been debunked long ago: https://www.factcheck.org/2022/04/attor ... errorists/

This hasn’t been “debunked”. The government got bad press when they were exposed and walked this back.

The government called parents who oppose CRT and raise a ruckus at school board meetings “terrorists”.

[Ken]

The U.S. government and the media has said that parents who attend school board meetings and oppose the liberal agenda are “terrorists”. The input of parents and taxpayers is not wanted.

No, actually they didn't. Why do you keep asserting this when it has been debunked long ago: https://www.factcheck.org/2022/04/attor ... errorists/

This hasn’t been “debunked”. The government got bad press when they were exposed and walked this back.

The government called parents who oppose CRT and raise a ruckus at school board meetings “terrorists”.

No, that isn't actually true. The National School Board Association wrote to the DOJ stating that death threats and threats of violence against school boards and school officials could be considered a the equivalent to domestic terrorism. In other words, actual threats of terror.

Are people who oppose CRT the ones who are making death treats and threats of violence against school officials? Is the anti-CRT movement really that unhinged?