How far are Mennonites involved in the "caravan"?

[Neoanabaptist]

I am a pertinacious commenter at Mennoworld and mostly they bear my comments with admirable patience. But there was one article "Be bold enough to speak" and I asked a very, very bold question which they didn't publish.

How far are Mennonites involved in the "caravan"? (This being the trek of Middle Americans who look for entering the United States on the grounds of being morally and legally entitled to do so.)

My arguments in this case are the following:
1. U.S. Mennonites are rather busy in Middle America, in particular in Honduras where the caravan seems to have started.
In reverse, there are Honduran Mennonites in the United States (e.g.Gregoria Florez-Nunnes) Both would certainly be unable to ignore the affair and probably have been asked for support (if they didn't be involved from the beginning).
2. The goals of the caravan accord with the common "social justice" standards.
3. The strategy of the caravan follows a classical nonviolent (or passive-aggressive) strategy: create a situation in which your counterpart either has to defend the status quo with violence or has to surrender publicly and give up. In fact this strategy could be out of a North American textbook for non-violent fighting; it is not the way conflicts are normally solved in Middle America.
4. The caravan must have support from the outside: organization, alimentation, litigation - even if no North American organization has until now publicly confessed to do so. (I don't know if this will change after the mid-terms.)

What's up here? Am I smelling a rat or am I on the wrong track? What do you think?

[DrWojo]

I am a pertinacious commenter at Mennoworld and mostly they bear my comments with admirable patience. But there was one article "Be bold enough to speak" and I asked a very, very bold question which they didn't publish.

How far are Mennonites involved in the "caravan"? (This being the trek of Middle Americans who look for entering the United States on the grounds of being morally and legally entitled to do so.)

My arguments in this case are the following:
1. U.S. Mennonites are rather busy in Middle America, in particular in Honduras where the caravan seems to have started.
In reverse, there are Honduran Mennonites in the United States (e.g.Gregoria Florez-Nunnes) Both would certainly be unable to ignore the affair and probably have been asked for support (if they didn't be involved from the beginning).
2. The goals of the caravan accord with the common "social justice" standards.
3. The strategy of the caravan follows a classical nonviolent (or passive-aggressive) strategy: create a situation in which your counterpart either has to defend the status quo with violence or has to surrender publicly and give up. In fact this strategy could be out of a North American textbook for non-violent fighting; it is not the way conflicts are normally solved in Middle America.
4. The caravan must have support from the outside: organization, alimentation, litigation - even if no North American organization has until now publicly confessed to do so. (I don't know if this will change after the mid-terms.)

What's up here? Am I smelling a rat or am I on the wrong track? What do you think?

I think the whole incident reeks of socialism. I’ll go so far as to say I have absolutely no problem with folks on an individual basis giving personally to help those in need, but for an organization like a large Mennonite church group to corporately come forward with funds to help freeloaders with questionable work ethics, morals and motives, I think it sends a message to the word and particularly to political liberals that they have little difference between each other: both love to spend money that was not theirs personally and both are Pacifists, only I’m not sure if that’s 1 or both groups by using an unBiblical principle (corporate rather than individual) promoting a counterfeit peace without the Prince of peace. Otherwise, IMO it would be much better to take the humanitarian aid to the aliens home country (Honduras). If you have enough means to travel the way they have been, they’re not as destitute as they pretend.

[Dan Z]

Interesting question Neoanabaptist - wonder why you got censored.

By the way, I think your instincts may be right here - it sounds like the type of occurrence that would draw the attention of those within the Mennonite peace and justice community.

I believe you are saying you think the "caravan" is more politically than practically motivated - akin to the civil rights marches of MK King more than to the exodus of Moses. Is that right?

[Dan Z]

"freeloaders with questionable work ethics, morals and motives"

"...they’re not as destitute as they pretend."

DrWojo, I find this kind of response uncharitable at best and unChristlike at worst. But perhaps you know more than I do about these people. On what basis have you decided that the folks in this caravan are lazy immoral liars?

[Josh]

I would argue that this is simply following the typical template of “direct action” that liberal-progressives tend to follow.

If it seems like something liberal Mennonites would do, I think that’s because liberal Mennonites copy what mainstream liberals do - much like conservative rural Mennonites who like to drive the same kind of trucks other conservative, rural people do.

Mennonites certainly do their share of illegal immigration across America’s southern (and northern) borders, sneaking around the border, and overstaying visas - but in my experience they tend do so quite secretly, preferring not to draw much attention to themselves.

[Josh]

"freeloaders with questionable work ethics, morals and motives"

"...they’re not as destitute as they pretend."

DrWojo, I find this kind of response uncharitable at best and unChristlike at worst. But perhaps you know more than I do about these people. On what basis have you decided that the folks in this caravan are lazy immoral liars?

On what basis have you decided that the caravan is composed solely of law abiding people?

The amount of fraud surrounding asylum applications is staggering. Let’s acknowledge the truth lies somewhere between left and right wing talking points. (And in particular, let’s acknowledge the left wants as much uncontrolled migration as possible in hopes to secure future elections; if you’d like references, I can post multiple editorials claiming as such.)

[Dan Z]

"freeloaders with questionable work ethics, morals and motives"

"...they’re not as destitute as they pretend."

DrWojo, I find this kind of response uncharitable at best and unChristlike at worst. But perhaps you know more than I do about these people. On what basis have you decided that the folks in this caravan are lazy immoral liars?

On what basis have you decided that the caravan is composed solely of law abiding people?

I haven't. Honestly, I don't know much about the people in the caravan at all. I've seen some pictures - heard some interviews. That's all. I do know that many Mexicans have extended kindness to them along the way.

But when I hear such a harsh judgement about people who Christ might describe as "the least of these," I want to know what brought about that response.

[Josh]

But when I hear such a harsh judgement about people who Christ might describe as "the least of these" I want to know what brought about that response.

Does being the “least of these” mean people aren’t capable of criminal behaviour?

It seems we should really separate the two in our minds. I often enjoy ministering to the “least of these”. With that in mind, I watch my back and make sure not to get to pocket picked.

A secular government has no duty to minister to “the least of these”. As Mennonites, it would seem best to go establish churches and relied on Central America - which my church indeed does.

[HondurasKeiser]

In case you're interested I wrote an extended comment to an article written by Rod Dreher at The American Conservative which was then published as its own post detailing a more Honduran, albeit foreigner in Honduras, perspective on this issue.

[JimFoxvog]

The amount of fraud surrounding asylum applications is staggering.

I worked for a decade in a Christian ministry helping refugees. I helped some with their asylum applications. I never became aware of any of those we worked with involved in fraud in any way.

Of course, that does not rule out the possibility of fraud someplace. But, in God's love, start with an attitude of compassion for those who, at least probably, are fleeing a desperate situation.