Trump targeted in another attempted assassination

[Bootstrap]

Brian Sicknick was sprayed with bear spray, and died the next day of a heart attack.

You of all people should know that correlation does not equal causation. Also I think if you would ask GPT it would tell you that the medical examiner determined that Sicknick died from natural causes - specifically from strokes caused by a blood clot.

Let me ask GPT:

Brian Sicknick was a U.S. Capitol Police officer who tragically died after the January 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol. Initially, there was speculation that his death was caused by injuries sustained during the riot. However, an autopsy later revealed that Sicknick died of natural causes, specifically two strokes, which occurred the day after the Capitol attack.

The medical examiner did note that while his death was not directly caused by blunt force trauma or an allergic reaction to chemical irritants, the physical and emotional stresses he experienced during the riot could have contributed to the timing of his strokes. Traumatic events, particularly those that induce severe stress, can elevate the risk of strokes or heart attacks, as they increase blood pressure and strain the cardiovascular system.

In Sicknick's case, the extreme physical and emotional stress of responding to the violent events on January 6 may have exacerbated underlying conditions, leading to his fatal strokes. This connection underscores how significant stress from traumatic events can affect heart and brain health.

That seems accurate to me.

[Bootstrap]

Four people died on January 6 and all were Trump supporters. One died from an amphetamine overdose. Two other Trump supporters had cardiovascular histories and died of heart attacks.

Ashli Babbitt, was shot by the police.

That is also bad. Sending a mob to the Capitol was a bad thing to do. One more way to normalize political violence. Trying to turn Ashli Babbit into some kind of martyr and hero also contributes to that. So does calling people arrested for their violent behavior martyrs and patriots.

I think the officer who shot her summarized it well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ashli_Babbitt

Looking back on his January 6 experience, Byrd said: "Once we barricaded the doors, we were essentially trapped where we were. There was no way to retreat. No other way to get out. If they get through that door, they're into the House chamber and upon the members of Congress." He stated that he had pulled the trigger as a "last resort" after the mob of protesters ignored his repeated orders to get back, and that he had no idea at that moment that Babbitt was unarmed and was a woman. Byrd commented: "I know that day I saved countless lives. I know members of Congress, as well as my fellow officers and staff, were in jeopardy and in serious danger. And that's my job".

That's why the investigation concluded he had done nothing wrong. Mobs and violence and threats should have no place in American politics. The level of contempt is out of hand. We cannot keep going down this road.

Surely we, as Christian peacemakers, should be trying to pull things in other directions ...

[Grace]

Four people died on January 6 and all were Trump supporters. One died from an amphetamine overdose. Two other Trump supporters had cardiovascular histories and died of heart attacks.

Ashli Babbitt, was shot by the police.

That is also bad. Sending a mob to the Capitol was a bad thing to do. One more way to normalize political violence. Trying to turn Ashli Babbit into some kind of martyr and hero also contributes to that. So does calling people arrested for their violent behavior martyrs and patriots.

I think the officer who shot her summarized it well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ashli_Babbitt

Looking back on his January 6 experience, Byrd said: "Once we barricaded the doors, we were essentially trapped where we were. There was no way to retreat. No other way to get out. If they get through that door, they're into the House chamber and upon the members of Congress." He stated that he had pulled the trigger as a "last resort" after the mob of protesters ignored his repeated orders to get back, and that he had no idea at that moment that Babbitt was unarmed and was a woman. Byrd commented: "I know that day I saved countless lives. I know members of Congress, as well as my fellow officers and staff, were in jeopardy and in serious danger. And that's my job".

That's why the investigation concluded he had done nothing wrong. Mobs and violence and threats should have no place in American politics. The level of contempt is out of hand. We cannot keep going down this road.

Surely we, as Christian peacemakers, should be trying to pull things in other directions ...

Jan. 6 was an awful day and mobs and violence must be condemned. And Trump made numerous mistakes that day. He did tell the crowd to protest peacefully, but he should have been more strong in pointing that out.

But, what direction should Christians pull? ? KJP, Biden and others have made the claim that police officers died that day. Should Christian peacemakers pull things in the direction of supporting lies as the means to promote hate for Trump and his supporters? Should Christian peacemakers justify the shooting of an unarmed woman? Should Christian peacemakers push unverifiable claims?

Jonathon Turley wrote a good article about the Ashli Babbitt.
https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/5 ... king/?rl=1

[Bootstrap]

Jan. 6 was an awful day and mobs and violence must be condemned. But, what direction should Christians pull? ? KJP, Biden and others have made the claim that police officers died that day. Should Christian peacemakers pull things in the direction of supporting lies? Should Christian peacemakers justify the shooting of an unarmed woman?

That's the problem with viewing everything through political lenses. It makes it seem like there are only two choices, and neither of the choices involves the things Jesus taught and did. It's like asking which worldly perspective should be normative for Christians - no worldly perspective should.

We need to get out of that framework and into a Christian worldview.

[Bootstrap]

Should Christian peacemakers pull things in the direction of supporting lies as the means to promote hate for Trump and his supporters? Should Christian peacemakers justify the shooting of an unarmed woman? Should Christian peacemakers push unverifiable claims?

If Christians choose to get involved in these issues, we should work hard at learning what verifiable truth is, what facts are, and how to compare different claims to arrive at the truth.

Shouting "lies" doesn't help with that process at all. Carefully looking at facts, together, from various perspectives - that can help. But only if we can do that.

I think peacemakers can do one of two things:

1. Stay away from politics altogether, focus on the core things the Bible calls us to, or
2. If called to engage in politics, don't take any political direction as normative, question political narratives, notice when political narratives encourage violence or contempt, and think about how to reframe those things in ways that can lead to greater peace, less violence, more justice.

[JohnH]

Jan. 6 was an awful day and mobs and violence must be condemned. But, what direction should Christians pull? ? KJP, Biden and others have made the claim that police officers died that day. Should Christian peacemakers pull things in the direction of supporting lies? Should Christian peacemakers justify the shooting of an unarmed woman?

That's the problem with viewing everything through political lenses. It makes it seem like there are only two choices, and neither of the choices involves the things Jesus taught and did. It's like asking which worldly perspective should be normative for Christians - no worldly perspective should.

We need to get out of that framework and into a Christian worldview.

Wouldn't a Christian worldview... or at least a Mennonite one... be that it's never good to shoot and kill people, and we should instead seek and pursue peace and find a third way?

I think it would have been a good thing if Ashli Babbitt hadn't been shot, but instead had been taken peacefully into custody. I don't know if anyone else got shot that day but if any of the protesters shot someone, it would be good if that hadn't happened to.

Likewise it is very difficult when a family member has a stroke or heart trouble, which can happen for a variety of reasons. Perhaps as peacemakers who care about life, we should care more about people's physical health including that of police officers. However, I have a hard time linking a mob and someone having a heart attack etc a few weeks later.

[Ken]

Jan. 6 was an awful day and mobs and violence must be condemned. And Trump made numerous mistakes that day. He did tell the crowd to protest peacefully, but he should have been more strong in pointing that out.

But, what direction should Christians pull? ? KJP, Biden and others have made the claim that police officers died that day. Should Christian peacemakers pull things in the direction of supporting lies as the means to promote hate for Trump and his supporters? Should Christian peacemakers justify the shooting of an unarmed woman? Should Christian peacemakers push unverifiable claims?

This is NOT some dispute over policy.

On January 6th Trump was in charge of the vast powers of the Federal government. Biden was a private citizen and Harris was one of the Senators under attack by the mob.

If you want to talk about lies then the whole sorry episode was due entirely to Trump's relentless and pervasive lying about the results of the 2020 election. Neither Biden nor Harris had anything to do with it. The events of January 6th and all the damage, deaths, and disrupted lives that resulted are due entirely to the actions of one person: Donald Trump. And since this is an assassination thread, that includes all the threats on Vice President Mike Pence's life and the lives of members of Congress. The mob he unleashed was literally chanting "Hang Mike Pence"

[Bootstrap]

That's the problem with viewing everything through political lenses. It makes it seem like there are only two choices, and neither of the choices involves the things Jesus taught and did. It's like asking which worldly perspective should be normative for Christians - no worldly perspective should.

We need to get out of that framework and into a Christian worldview.

Wouldn't a Christian worldview... or at least a Mennonite one... be that it's never good to shoot and kill people, and we should instead seek and pursue peace and find a third way?

I think it would have been a good thing if Ashli Babbitt hadn't been shot, but instead had been taken peacefully into custody. I don't know if anyone else got shot that day but if any of the protesters shot someone, it would be good if that hadn't happened to.

I think we do need to take Romans 13 into account. If there were a way to take her into custody peacefully, they should have done that, but the investigation concluded that there was no such way, and that the Capitol Police were required to protect Congress from the mob.

Likewise it is very difficult when a family member has a stroke or heart trouble, which can happen for a variety of reasons. Perhaps as peacemakers who care about life, we should care more about people's physical health including that of police officers. However, I have a hard time linking a mob and someone having a heart attack etc a few weeks later.

But that's not what happened. Brian Sicknick was sprayed with bear spray on January 6th, collapsed later that day. and was taken to the hospital. He died the next day, on January 7th.

The medical examiner stated that "all that transpired" on January 6th contributed to his condition. So, while he did not die directly from injuries sustained during the riot, the events of that day were a factor in his death.

[GaryK]

That's the problem with viewing everything through political lenses. It makes it seem like there are only two choices, and neither of the choices involves the things Jesus taught and did. It's like asking which worldly perspective should be normative for Christians - no worldly perspective should.

We need to get out of that framework and into a Christian worldview.

Wouldn't a Christian worldview... or at least a Mennonite one... be that it's never good to shoot and kill people, and we should instead seek and pursue peace and find a third way?

I think it would have been a good thing if Ashli Babbitt hadn't been shot, but instead had been taken peacefully into custody. I don't know if anyone else got shot that day but if any of the protesters shot someone, it would be good if that hadn't happened to.

I think we do need to take Romans 13 into account. If there were a way to take her into custody peacefully, they should have done that, but the investigation concluded that there was no such way, and that the Capitol Police were required to protect Congress from the mob.

Likewise it is very difficult when a family member has a stroke or heart trouble, which can happen for a variety of reasons. Perhaps as peacemakers who care about life, we should care more about people's physical health including that of police officers. However, I have a hard time linking a mob and someone having a heart attack etc a few weeks later.

But that's not what happened. Brian Sicknick was sprayed with bear spray on January 6th, collapsed later that day. and was taken to the hospital. He died the next day, on January 7th.

The medical examiner stated that "all that transpired" on January 6th contributed to his condition. So, while he did not die directly from injuries sustained during the riot, the events of that day were a factor in his death.

According to your GPT quote, the medical examiner did not say that "all that transpired" on J6 contributed to his condition.

The medical examiner did note that while his death was not directly caused by blunt force trauma or an allergic reaction to chemical irritants, the physical and emotional stresses he experienced during the riot could have contributed to the timing of his strokes. Traumatic events, particularly those that induce severe stress, can elevate the risk of strokes or heart attacks, as they increase blood pressure and strain the cardiovascular system.

[Grace]

This is NOT some dispute over policy.

I must have missed something. Who said it was about policy?

The events of January 6th and all the damage, deaths, and disrupted lives that resulted are due entirely to the actions of one person: Donald Trump.

I am of the belief that every person has a free will and every person is responsible for their own choices, no matter what any politician says.