Trump Convicted

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
User avatar
Robert
Site Janitor
Posts: 8724
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:16 pm
Affiliation: Anabaptist

Re: Trump Convicted

Post by Robert »

Szdfan wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:57 am Russell Moore makes some really good points about Trunp's evangelical supporters in Christianity Today --

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/20 ... moore.html
The former president’s defenders are too smart to believe what some of them imply—that Trump never really knew Stormy Daniels and that he was paying her six figures of hush money to keep her from talking about something that never happened. So what message does it send when—like every other political constituency—we find ways to minimize that by suggesting that the cultural and political stakes are too high to worry about such minor matters as keeping one’s vows or telling the truth?

That’s especially when a figure is held up to the rest of the country as a champion of restoring the country to Christian values—to when “girls were girls and men were men,” as the old sitcom characters Archie and Edith Bunker would sing it. And that’s especially true when Christian leaders hail Trump as a “baby Christian” and he licenses his name to Bibles. For many Americans, the word evangelical now is shorthand for “Trump supporter.” How can we blame them when, in so many arenas of American Christian life, people who deny the Trinity are embraced as Christians, but those who don’t support Trump are ostracized as apostates?

Many will talk about how God uses flawed and imperfect people; that’s true, of course. This is not, though, a Chuck Colson repenting of his sin, taking responsibility for it and pleading for God’s mercy. This is someone who instead now says that he will take revenge on his critics and enemies the moment he is back in office.

What does that say to those who are watching, learning from Trump’s “never admit, never apologize” strategy? It says policy is more important than character. Achievement is more important than integrity. The implication from religious leaders reputedly bearing witness to the God for whom they speak is this: A man is justified by winning alone.
Trump paid $100,000 to a doorman to silence him about some love child hat was totally false. Many very wealthy people do this. It is often just a robbery that is going on and very wealthy people pay off instead of fight because it ends up being cheaper and easier than getting drug though the mud with the world watching. This is actually done quite often in the legal system. Our insurance just settled a case and gave the suiter $300,000 because they just wanted to get the suite off the books. I was very frustrated because it made out insurance costs go up for over 3 years and there was no grounds for the suite. We have another suite on us because a lady fell on the neighbor's sidewalk and we got sued along with the neighbor and the town. I suspect this will get settled with "hush" money too.

To us, $130,000 is a lot. To Trump CO, it is small change. I look at the amount and see it more a scheme then a real case. If it was a real case, much more money would have been brokered.

The case is not that it was paid, but that is was misfiled. The accountant who does Trump Co books testified that there was no direction from Trump and she was the one who filed it as legal expenses. I trusted the person who did my taxes last year and did not check every line item. Maybe I am guilty of tax fraud and don't even know it.

The thing I look at is Trump, his life and businesses have been dug through very thoroughly. If this is all they could find, he is the cleanest NY businessman around. I suspect few politicians in DC could hold up to that kind of scrutiny.

I still do not think I will be voting for him. I still plan to vote 3rd party or write in. I just do not see this as a real issue that would sway my vote if I was planning to vote for Trump. On the contrary. I am more with those who will now vote for Trump as a protest vote for this kind of political weaponization of the legal system.

Nebuchadnezzar was good for Israel.
1 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Ken
Posts: 17031
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Trump Convicted

Post by Ken »

Robert wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 9:28 amI still do not think I will be voting for him. I still plan to vote 3rd party or write in. I just do not see this as a real issue that would sway my vote if I was planning to vote for Trump. On the contrary. I am more with those who will now vote for Trump as a protest vote for this kind of political weaponization of the legal system.
There are no doubt plenty of Trump supporters who are doubling-down on support for him after this trial. That is to be expected.

But Biden voters who are going to flip their votes to Trump BECAUSE he was convicted of covering up hush money payments to a porn star by falsifying business records? I don't buy that. I suspect anyone who says such a thing to a reporter was already a solid Trump voter to begin with.

People's views of Trump are pretty hardened by now. I don't think this conviction is necessarily going to hurt him all that much. But I don't see how it helps him at all. I expect that is wishful thinking on the part of Trump faithful who are living in their own echo chamber. Ordinary folks who are undecided are not talking about the "political weaponization of the legal system" That is purely insider stuff.
1 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
temporal1
Posts: 16889
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: Trump Convicted

Post by temporal1 »

Josh wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 11:27 pm
temporal1 wrote:
temporal1 quoting Grace wrote: It seems like when posters aren't putting Trump down several time each day, they get accused of excusing him and being lesser Christians, than those who do consistently denigrate him.
Grace,
MN has its “resident” DeNiro Juniors.
Over years, no change in TDS: If you don’t HATE Trump, you’re in blind love with him.
(Maybe somewhat as joe idolizes hunter?) blind love.
You hit the nail on the head; some people seem to want daily denouncements as some kind of proof that we're good Christians. It's beyond ridiculous. Particularly when the same people will, in a different breath, tell us how we should respect Biden as our country's leader due to what the Bible says, etc.

(I would note that seemed oddly silent about that approach back when Trump was President).

It's naked partisanship, and it's right to call it out as such. One of the signs of a partisan is they will demand you pick sides, and then accuse you of being unfaithful to your country, not a good Christian, an immoral person yourself, etc. if you refuse to do so. This thread is exemplary of that.
Thanks.
For me, you hit the nail wrt horrifying treatment of President Trump, 2016-2020.

Frankly, if we could go back for a redo, clean it up, the world would be in a decent place today.
The fact “horrifying disrespect” happened, fundamentally changed life in the U.S.
DJT wasn’t the first POTUS to be disrespected, criticized, unwanted. “Horrifying disrespect” went to an epic level - that continues, nonstop.

“Note,” also, these same (dweebs) top-down, not just some “fringe” minorities, noisily rail against SCOTUS, ‘cause of RvW.

i believe it’s a fundamental change in the U.S. that is unhealthy and will not be quickly reversed, if ever.
The “top-down” part is most worrisome. There will be odd outliers.

- - - - - - -

i think of my best church experience.
there was a beloved pastor of decades, when we joined, he was not well, had a terminal diagnosis.
THE PRAYERS for him were palpable, in chuch, and in the outside community, he was loved and respected.
he did sooo much better than his diagnosis. we enjoyed him/his leadership for unexpected years.
in time, he passed.

our new pastor was nothing like him. i had no complaints, at all, he was a good man, good family.
some were very unhappy with him. i believe they were in deep mourning.

he was not treated with disrespect, that i’m aware. he was replaced.
i haven’t revisited that church in years, i occasionally hear the new pastor is doing well.

^^in my view, this is how to handle things in a healthy community - church, or government!

what can be done with or for those who refuse to be governed?!
groups need some common, agreed set of guidelines.
individuals need to accept they won’t always get what they want/demand.

this is part of my disagreement with ORGANIZED POLITICAL BLOCS/LOBBIES.
it’s about minority interests banning together to control the majority. the tail wags the dog.

blocs ALWAYS BEGIN with some appealing premise. 100%
over time, they morph into bullies. bullies of law, with support of the public treasury.
double whammy.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
User avatar
Robert
Site Janitor
Posts: 8724
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:16 pm
Affiliation: Anabaptist

Re: Trump Convicted

Post by Robert »

Ken wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:11 am
People's views of Trump are pretty hardened by now. I don't think this conviction is necessarily going to hurt him all that much. But I don't see how it helps him at all. I expect that is wishful thinking on the part of Trump faithful who are living in their own echo chamber. Ordinary folks who are undecided are not talking about the "political weaponization of the legal system" That is purely insider stuff.
Polls and focus groups are disagreeing with your opinion.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Szdfan
Posts: 4418
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:34 am
Location: The flat part of Colorado
Affiliation: MCUSA

Re: Trump Convicted

Post by Szdfan »

Robert wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:50 pm
Ken wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:11 am
People's views of Trump are pretty hardened by now. I don't think this conviction is necessarily going to hurt him all that much. But I don't see how it helps him at all. I expect that is wishful thinking on the part of Trump faithful who are living in their own echo chamber. Ordinary folks who are undecided are not talking about the "political weaponization of the legal system" That is purely insider stuff.
Polls and focus groups are disagreeing with your opinion.
Which polls and focus groups are you looking at?
0 x
“It’s easy to make everything a conspiracy when you don’t know how anything works.” — Brandon L. Bradford
Valerie
Posts: 5399
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: Trump Convicted

Post by Valerie »

Robert wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:50 pm
Ken wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:11 am
People's views of Trump are pretty hardened by now. I don't think this conviction is necessarily going to hurt him all that much. But I don't see how it helps him at all. I expect that is wishful thinking on the part of Trump faithful who are living in their own echo chamber. Ordinary folks who are undecided are not talking about the "political weaponization of the legal system" That is purely insider stuff.
Polls and focus groups are disagreeing with your opinion.
Trump had huge support today in San Francisco. He had support in the Bronx the other day too. Many have come to his side, that were not before.

Speaking of "hardened" I actually had an 82 year old customer today say Trump should be jailed or KILLED! He even went on to say if he could, he would kill him! Lord have mercy!
0 x
Ken
Posts: 17031
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Trump Convicted

Post by Ken »

Valerie wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:59 pmTrump had huge support today in San Francisco. He had support in the Bronx the other day too. Many have come to his side, that were not before.
8 People is "huge support?"

0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Valerie
Posts: 5399
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: Trump Convicted

Post by Valerie »

The above realization that there's seemingly ordinary citizens that think Trump should be killed is terribly disturbing. I honestly take this as a threat that very well could happen
0 x
Ken
Posts: 17031
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Trump Convicted

Post by Ken »

Valerie wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:11 pm The above realization that there's seemingly ordinary citizens that think Trump should be killed is terribly disturbing. I honestly take this as a threat that very well could happen
Well, Josh said this a page upstream:
Josh wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:59 amI have repeatedly said I think adultery should both be illegal and should be sentenced with the death penalty.
Did you find that terribly disturbing? Given that Trump is a serial adulterer?
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Valerie
Posts: 5399
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: Trump Convicted

Post by Valerie »

Ken wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:09 pm
Valerie wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:59 pmTrump had huge support today in San Francisco. He had support in the Bronx the other day too. Many have come to his side, that were not before.
8 People is "huge support?"

LOL, all depends on what media you see. I didn't see it, Mom was telling me all about it, streets being lined, she saw it. Gotta love fake news.

He also went to Compton, sure is getting a lot of black supporters these days- I witnessed that myself while eating at a local truck stop- black supporting Trump when Fox was on the truckers tv- he does have quite a variety of supporters "speaking out"
0 x
Post Reply