RZehr wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 11:49 am
A pardon does not mean that the person is innocent, or that he didn’t do what he was convicted of, or that the jury got it wrong. In fact, (I think) a pardon is an act of mercy extended, and one of the conditions of a pardon is that the person excepts his conviction and receives a pardon from the consequences of that conviction.
Just so.
But do you think Abbott would have pardoned him if he were a left-wing person who shot a Proud Boy? To me, this is yet another signal that we have to be gracious to right-wing people who kill lefties. In a time of very violent, threatening political rhetoric. I really don't like the political signaling here.
Abbott said he wanted to pardon him less than a day after his conviction. And Abbott doesn't often pardon anyone else.
Sounds like the real question that no one has successfully gotten to the bottom of just yet, is simply -
Exactly what sort of retirement plan did Daniel Perry have, and did he break any laws relating to that?
RZehr wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 11:00 am
Sounds like the real question that no one has successfully gotten to the bottom of just yet, is simply -
Exactly what sort of retirement plan did Daniel Perry have, and did he break any laws relating to that?
As an Army sergeant he would have access to a military pension and the Federal TSP plan which is also a deferred compensation plan that allows early and hardship withdrawals as well as loans. I bought my first house with a TSP loan.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Deferred compensation is not your property and is not an IRA. It is money that still belongs to your employer, who may choose to have a third party administrator like NRS do bookkeeping for them. Legally, it remains the property of the government employer. This is significantly different than a 401k is, where the funds are no longer the property of the employer.
As a lawyer, Ms. Moshe should have understood this; legally, what she did is stealing from the government’s pension fund (deferred compensation subaccount). It is not a 401k and it is not a Roth IRA.
(I forgot that I used to work for NRS… that was back in 2004. The details are slowly coming back to me.) Part of my job duties included understanding these intricacies so reports would work properly. One of the quirks for example is the shares owned, profits/dividends etc inside a 427 are treated as if a government is the owner, not a private individual, which sometimes has significant consequences.
Josh wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 4:28 pm
Deferred compensation is not your property and is not an IRA. It is money that still belongs to your employer, who may choose to have a third party administrator like NRS do bookkeeping for them. Legally, it remains the property of the government employer. This is significantly different than a 401k is, where the funds are no longer the property of the employer.
As a lawyer, Ms. Moshe should have understood this; legally, what she did is stealing from the government’s pension fund (deferred compensation subaccount). It is not a 401k and it is not a Roth IRA.
(I forgot that I used to work for NRS… that was back in 2004. The details are slowly coming back to me.) Part of my job duties included understanding these intricacies so reports would work properly. One of the quirks for example is the shares owned, profits/dividends etc inside a 427 are treated as if a government is the owner, not a private individual, which sometimes has significant consequences.
Once again. The plan in question is a 457(b) plan. Which are nearly identical to 401(k) plans. here is a handy compare and contrast between 401(k) plans and 457(b) plans. They operate nearly identically and the main difference is that 401(k) plans are for private employers and 457(b) plans are for government employers. My wife and I have both kinds of plans and so I know from personal experience that they function more or less the same.
401(k) Plan vs. 457 Plan: What’s the Difference? It has to do with who is allowed to participate in the plan
401(k) Plan vs. 457 Plan: An Overview
Two types of Internal Revenue Service-sanctioned, tax-advantaged employee retirement savings plans are the 401(k) plan and the 457 plan. As tax-advantaged plans, participants are allowed to deposit pretax money that then compounds without being taxed until it is withdrawn.
These retirement savings accounts were designed to serve as one leg of the famous three-legged stool of retirement: workplace pension, Social Security, and personal retirement savings. As workplace pensions become obsolete, however, personal retirement savings have increasingly come to serve as most people’s primary retirement plan, along with Social Security.
Notably, 401(k) plans and 457 plans operate similarly, with the main difference being who is allowed to participate in each one.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
401(k) plans and 457 plans are both tax-advantaged retirement savings plans.
401(k) plans are offered by private employers, while 457 plans are offered by state and local governments and some nonprofits.
The two plans are very similar, but because 457 plans are not governed by ERISA, some aspects, such as catch-up contributions, early withdrawals, and hardship distributions, are handled differently.
[snip snip lots of details]
The Bottom Line
Both the 401(k) plan and the 457 plan are retirement plans offered by employers to their employees to save for retirement. They are similar in almost every way with a few distinctions, the primary one being that 401(k)s are offered by private employers while 457 plans are offered by local governments and some non-profits. Both plans are a great way to save for retirement.
What she did is functionally no different from someone who took an early withdrawal from their 401(k) plan during COVID which hundreds of thousands of Americans did. Does she deserve go to to jail because she lied on the form by fraudulently claiming it was for COVID hardship in order to avoid the early withdrawal penalty? Probably not. I doubt many other Americans are being tried for the same thing even though many did, indeed, do the same thing. Just like many firms took PPP loans when they didn't have COVID losses. But that is neither here nor there. But that is, indeed, the crime she is being charged with.
How that is the equivalent of racially-motivated murder I still don't know.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
some aspects, such as catch-up contributions, early withdrawals, and hardship distributions, are handled differently.
A 457 is not your property. A 401k is.
Hence early withdrawals are an entirely different matter
In any case yes people can and are being prosecuted for fraudulent ppp loans.
No, for the purpose of this discussion, early withdrawals from a 401(k) and 457 plan are exactly the same. Both are allowed. And both have early withdrawal penalties unless you qualify for a hardship exemption. They are functionally the same.
In any event, she was sentenced to home detention and probation today, no jail time. I still fail to see how this case is in any way comparable to the Daniel Perry murder or remotely illustrates anything about "both sides do it" when it comes to politically motivated pardons. She hasn't been pardoned and it was the Biden Justice Department who prosecuted her in the first place. The initial investigation of her finances began in March 2021 and she was brought up on Federal charges in January 2022. Biden and Merrick Garland were in charge of the Justice Department that entire time. This wasn't some Trump-era thing.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
There's a theme here in modern "conservative" media.
Pick someone convicted of a real, serious crime. Or who has done something really wrong that is not a crime. Tell everyone they are being unfairly persecuted because they are conservative. Tell everyone that we are all in danger of the same thing. They have trained a lot of people to instantly feel what they want them to feel, over and over again, with these imaginary outrages.
Don't drive to protests to shoot people. If you do, you might get convicted of a crime.
If we are looking for real victims with real needs, there are a lot of people who are suffering real outrages. They aren't the same people that politicized media champions. For the most part, they aren't the people we discuss here.
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Josh wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 7:43 am
Except the actual crime and the sentencing are different. That was the entire point.
I think lawyers should not get lenient sentencing. Particularly lawyers who are prosecutors.
Do you think she got lenient sentencing? What is the average sentence for someone who lies on their 401(k) early withdrawal form to avoid the 10% penalty?
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
