A letter I sent my senators, please consider similar.

[Outsider]

A very robust age verification system for Facebook or TikTok and other social media would require that such companies collect and maintain a lot of private information on users such as drivers license or passport information since you would have to verify your identity every time you use the platform. If TikTok has the drivers license information of every user that becomes an enormous security problem and would be an irresistible target for hackers and identity thieves.

You mean exactly like your apple.id, your Amazon account, your federal government accounts, your state government accounts? Come on Ken, you're making an exceptional case out of something that's as common as mud.

Amazon doesn't know my age, and neither does Apple. Neither of them verify my identity. They know I have a valid credit card on file to pay for purchases and downloads and that's all they need to know. I mean they probably know by now just through the endless data collection that both sites do. But there isn't any formal age verification by Apple or Amazon.

But your Federal, State, and local government databases do. As you said, it would require biometric data being collected with your other data, but- as I said- it would need to be done by the government. Hold your nose and let them have the biometry.

Explain it to me like I'm stupid (which I probably am) how you would expect a foreign company like TikTok to do any kind of robust age verification of American teenagers who are signing up for accounts. What is the step-by-step process? What information are you going to ask them to collect and verify? How are they going to verify it?

An anonymous token encrypted to a government ID. Take the money from the snoops at the DHS and NSA etc. looking into your underwear drawers and use it to fund something useful to the people instead.

Now I don't for a moment deny that it is possible to actually do online age verification. It is. But it is also very data intrusive and means that they are collecting a lot of personal information on you in the process.

The government already has that information. And your data will be no less secure tied to an anonymized token than it is sitting in those databases right now.

Because remember. If you impose an age verification requirement on any web site. You are by definition imposing it for ALL users, not just teens.

Worth it.

[Outsider]

“Age appropriate” is laughable.
Children do NOT keep info to themselves, often, they use younger children to act out/experiment. A recipe for disaster.
Please, stop insulting the public’s intelligence.

But remember, this isn't actually happening. Don't believe your lying eyes.

*the wind drops from my sails*

When the government is the pornographer, what can you do?

[temporal1]

“Age appropriate” is laughable.
Children do NOT keep info to themselves, often, they use younger children to act out/experiment. A recipe for disaster.
Please, stop insulting the public’s intelligence.

But remember, this isn't actually happening. Don't believe your lying eyes.

*the wind drops from my sails*

When the government is the pornographer, what can you do?

Christians are to encourage one another. 1 Thess 5:11
Not because it’s easy! For the long haul.

i was encouraged by your OP letter, esp remembering how RvW was overturned - after decades.
(Very encouraged you’re posting, as you’re recovering) ..
Decades of prayer and lots of work of many, helping mothers, adopting children, problem solving, etc.

Lots of people have wanted restrictions for sex+violence for decades, with some results .. like, ratings for movies ..
Presently, there are different bills aimed at restricting social media devices - wrt children+teens.

The LOBBIES and organized political blocs are powerful .. my opinion, not within the spirit of the founders, and, not anything rooted in Jesus Christ .. you’re right, once evil gets hold of gov policy, it’s tough. evil exists to deceive.

God is greater-than all of these put together .. He calls His to faith. As Jesus counseled Thomas: faith without proof.

Don’t let your sails droop.

[Ken]

You mean exactly like your apple.id, your Amazon account, your federal government accounts, your state government accounts? Come on Ken, you're making an exceptional case out of something that's as common as mud.

Amazon doesn't know my age, and neither does Apple. Neither of them verify my identity. They know I have a valid credit card on file to pay for purchases and downloads and that's all they need to know. I mean they probably know by now just through the endless data collection that both sites do. But there isn't any formal age verification by Apple or Amazon.

But your Federal, State, and local government databases do. As you said, it would require biometric data being collected with your other data, but- as I said- it would need to be done by the government. Hold your nose and let them have the biometry.

Explain it to me like I'm stupid (which I probably am) how you would expect a foreign company like TikTok to do any kind of robust age verification of American teenagers who are signing up for accounts. What is the step-by-step process? What information are you going to ask them to collect and verify? How are they going to verify it?

An anonymous token encrypted to a government ID. Take the money from the snoops at the DHS and NSA etc. looking into your underwear drawers and use it to fund something useful to the people instead.

Now I don't for a moment deny that it is possible to actually do online age verification. It is. But it is also very data intrusive and means that they are collecting a lot of personal information on you in the process.

The government already has that information. And your data will be no less secure tied to an anonymized token than it is sitting in those databases right now.

Because remember. If you impose an age verification requirement on any web site. You are by definition imposing it for ALL users, not just teens.

Worth it.

I'm actually in favor of a national ID with biometric features. It would make voting a lot better too. We could make voting registration and verification of voting eligibility Federal and get all the states and localities out of it completely. But all the conservatives in this country would have an absolute conniption fit if we rolled out such a thing. And it would be enormously expensive.

Given that it has taken 20 years to roll out "real ID" and we aren't even there yet, I expect your idea would take 20 more years.

But even if we did it, how does TikTok age verify a 13 year old living in Pakistan? Or a 24 year old living in Gaza? Or a 35 year old living in Japan? Or a 15 year old living in Omaha using a VPN who says he is any one of those?

[temporal1]

It’s called a passport. We already have them, just not everyone.

Soc Sec Numbers, now assigned at birth.

[Josh]

Congress has passed many laws, and so have states like Texas, banning pornography for anyone under 18.

The courts keep overturning such laws, claiming they make it too hard for adults to anonymously view pornography.

I realize that Josh. The ".XXX" domain scheme was proposed back in the late 90's-early-2000's. It's still a fight worth fighting, and a hill worth dying on. IMHO.

It absolutely should.

Simple websites that offer free TV shows or movies, but which violate copyright law, often get shut down by the authorities. (Does this violate my right to "free speech"? Hmm...) So I don't see why any pornographic website that is not properly labelled doesn't also get shut down.

I also don't think pornography is "speech", but some courts disagree with me. I think speech is speech. Obscene material is not speech. We already have laws against child pornography, so why can't we have laws against children being corrupted by pornography?

[Josh]

I'm actually in favor of a national ID with biometric features. It would make voting a lot better too. We could make voting registration and verification of voting eligibility Federal and get all the states and localities out of it completely. But all the conservatives in this country would have an absolute conniption fit if we rolled out such a thing. And it would be enormously expensive.

All of which is absolutely irrelevant to whether or not young children should be protected against seeing pornography.

Given that it has taken 20 years to roll out "real ID" and we aren't even there yet, I expect your idea would take 20 more years.

But even if we did it, how does TikTok age verify a 13 year old living in Pakistan? Or a 24 year old living in Gaza? Or a 35 year old living in Japan? Or a 15 year old living in Omaha using a VPN who says he is any one of those?

What does Pakistan or Gaza have to do with anything?

What we said is that pornographers should verify the age of a potential subscriber (even one who isn't paying money upfront). This is not hard to do. Tobacco companies do it before letting you sign up to get free coupons in the mail. I used to sign up for this and give coupons away to friends of mine who were smokers. Back then the age verification was simpler, but I see now that you actually have to put quite a bit of personal identifying information in.

People under 21 aren't allowed to go into stores and buy tobacco. Stores are required to verify that an ID isn't fake, and they regularly are tested in "sting" operations conducted by the state. It is the store's fault and liability if they accept a fake ID. There are commercial tools available to validate their ID including scanning it and training for staff to detect fraud.

In order to access my online IRS account, I had to verify myself with ID.me which included scanning a picture of my passport or state ID and having an automated video conference to verify it was really me. Everyone has to pay taxes and file tax returns, so why isn't this an acceptable option for viewing pornography? The ID.me account is free - any U.S. resident can sign up - and verifies your birthdate.

The responsibility needs to be on the pornographer not to distribute pornography to children. My immediate answer is that they shouldn't allow connections from foreign countries over a VPN; pornography is completely illegal in Pakistan and Gaza. If other countries allow minors to view pornography, the obvious solution is for the U.S. to shut off connectivity to those countries until they fix that problem. No children should be viewing pornography anywhere.

[Szdfan]

More likely, the Federal government would have to set up some sort of new national ID card with digital and biometric features (facial ID, retinal scans, fingerprints, etc.) all stored in Federal databases and then allow big tech companies to interface with such information in order to do age verifications.

I can already imagine the freakout and conspiracy theories about a national ID and long posts on MN about how this is a sign of the End Times.

It’s called a passport. We already have them, just not everyone.

I'm just gonna put this here --

Vaccine Mandates a Slippery Slope towards the Surveillance State and Mark of the Beast

This thread is for discussing and keeping up to date on how vaccine mandates are increasingly being used not merely for health purposes but for political control.

What do you think the reaction would be if the government required a national ID for people to sign into a website? I'm not opposed to a national ID, but after having encountered all the conspiracy theory drama here and elsewhere, I think the reaction would be an epic meltdown.

[Neto]

If there was still any sense of moral decency left in the world's governments, ALL pornography would be against the law. Period. It is abusive to the core, an insult to every woman and girl. And something that injures the soul of every boy or man.

[Outsider]

But all the conservatives in this country would have an absolute conniption fit if we rolled out such a thing.

The last few years it's been "voter suppression" and "no voter ID" from the other team. You know, the ones who want illegals to vote?

And it would be enormously expensive.

This is why I suggested the cost should be taken from the illegal spy operations run by the DHS, NSA, and the Post Office, of all things.

Given that it has taken 20 years to roll out "real ID" and we aren't even there yet, I expect your idea would take 20 more years.

I don't see why. If people really want it done. It's just a matter of tieing biometry to an already-existing database, and adding a public/private encryption scheme (which also already exists) to spit out an anonymized token.

But even if we did it, how does TikTok age verify a 13 year old living in Pakistan? Or a 24 year old living in Gaza? Or a 35 year old living in Japan?

That would be between TikTok, Pakistan, Gaza, and Japan. I don't have a say in what goes on in those countries.

Or a 15 year old living in Omaha using a VPN who says he is any one of those?

Anonymized token. Anonymized token. Anonymized token.