HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 4:32 pm
I really like Bart Ehrman, and grieve for his loss of faith.
I listened to him several years ago and decided that he is very convincing and I don't need that type of input.
I understand what you mean so I tend to only listen to him when it’s with someone of equal intellect and/or training that’s pushing back on him. Douthat did quite a good job in this conversation and both were very cordial and pleasant.
HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 4:32 pm
I really like Bart Ehrman, and grieve for his loss of faith.
I listened to him several years ago and decided that he is very convincing and I don't need that type of input.
I understand what you mean so I tend to only listen to him when it’s with someone of equal intellect and/or training that’s pushing back on him. Douthat did quite a good job in this conversation and both were very cordial and pleasant.
I could guess that might be the case. He comes across as very sincere and very intelligent. Since I search topics related to theology on YouTube on occasion, it has decided I need to see lots of Ehrman and recommends him constantly.
From your perspective could hazard a guess how Mr. Ehrman's faith might have faired if had he stayed with the Episcopal church of his youth.
Re: The Reliability of the Gospels
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2026 7:20 pm
by Neto
I listened to part of this. I got to the place where he basically says that the "straw the broke the camel's back" of his remaining faith was the problem of suffering. I suspect that some of the reason for this being a seemingly insurmountable problem for him is due to the Calvinist doctrine that he was subjected to while at Moody Bible Institute. I am then also immediately reminded of the "Aha!" moment I witnessed when I told the story of Job to my Banawa translation consultant. He (Sabatao) had the advantage of being an "animist Christian". That sounds like a weird thing to say, in many ways, and that's why I said it. Animists are extremely aware of the spiritual world of beings all around them. They see them, and meet them in their daily lives. This awareness negates the 'problem of evil' right from the get-go. So in that sense, the book of Job is animistic - it clearly accepts the existence of (generally) unseen spiritual beings, some, or perhaps many, of which are on the side of evil and fear. But it also very clearly shows the greater power of God. It doesn't reject animism, it uses it to explain the 'problem' that Westerners have a great deal of difficulty getting past. Not so for the animist - it's what they deal with on a regular basis.
I know another former Christian who was, in fact, a Bible translator as we were, and it's interesting to me that he was also a graduate of Moody Bible Institute. Coincidence? Perhaps, I don't know. But what is more puzzling for me is that he also lived with animists, and also says that he learned a great deal from the tribe with whom he & his family lived and worked. But he learned something different than I did. It destroyed his faith, and built mine up. I wish I knew why it happened that way, but I feel very privileged to have had the opportunity to learn to know Sabatao and others of his people, and to have been so greatly blessed through that experience.
Re: The Reliability of the Gospels
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2026 7:04 am
by barnhart
Neto, your experience with Animism reminds me of a recent podcast of a conversation between Russell Moore and Malcolm Guite about the gospel, paganism and the re-enchantment of western culture. The similarities I see are that driving the supernatural out of modernity was not friendly to Christianity and that "re-enchantment" is a friend only as far as believers actively move into that space with grace and obedience.
barnhart wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2026 5:02 pm
I listened to him several years ago and decided that he is very convincing and I don't need that type of input.
Unless I’m mistaken, he was quite convincing as to the dangers of textual criticism to me.
Because he opposed it or because he embraced it?
I was also puzzled about this comment.
Personally, I regard efforts to establish 'purity of the text' in the same way as I see efforts to maintain personal and corporate purity in the Church, as well as doctrinal purity. (It IS true that all of these objectives can 'run amuck' if not conducted within, and governed by, an environment of piety and brotherhood.)
EDIT: I'll have to listen to the video at another time. It appears to be quite long, and so maybe on a Sunday afternoon.