barnhart wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2026 8:02 am As I see it...
Traditional Reform: the church and state are co-equal partners in God's redemptive plan
American Protestant: the duty of the church is to infiltrate and control the state to perform God's plan through it.
Reconstructionist and Nationalist Reform: the state must be fashioned to protect and nurture the church and protect it from contamination or abuse.
Anabaptist: the kingdom of heaven is the stone from Daniel that is cut from the mountain that eventually covers the whole world, displacing government but in the current era exists as strangers and pilgrims, and sheep among wolves by the supernatural power of Jesus, not looking for nor needing the power of the state.
I'm don't understand the Catholic and Orthodox worlds enough to summarize their approaches but I suspect it is a combination of the church mentoring or shepherding the state to perform God's plan.
In this thread I would like to work on these definitions/positions more (and we could add a few more if necessary) to reflect the different schools of thought on church and state.barnhart wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2026 12:26 pmI generally agree, the concept I was reaching for with the American Protestants (Evangelicalism) is controlling but from a distance to maintain the aura of separation.MattY wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2026 12:20 pm
Your descriptions of Traditional Reformed and Anabaptist are pretty good. Not sure about the two in between. The view you list as the "American Protestant" view ("infiltrate and control") sounds too much like Dominionism which belongs under the Reconstructionist label. If you're intending to describe the evangelical view in America, it has more to do with a moral influence model, like this: Church and state are separate, in that there should never be an established church, but Christian values are vital for public morality and Christians should advocate for them in the public sphere.
Evangelicals who are dispensationalists have two competing influences on their view of church/state - the aforementioned American evangelical moral influence model, vs. dispensational skepticism of church/state union and Christians "ruling" in this era. Dispensationalists have tended to focus on the relationship of the church and Israel rather than the church and the state, but when they do talk about it, they tend to affirm a place for moral influence but add a cautionary note about the church being separate from the state and the church not being supposed to "rule" in this dispensation.
The Traditional Reformed view might be clarified like this: Church and state are distinct but complementary realms and Christ reigns as King over both. The church holds the power of the keys (matters of faith, salvation, and spiritual well-being), the state wields the power of the sword (keeping order and upholding justice), and both create an environment for the gospel to thrive.
The Reconstructionist view is that there is no neutrality in life: no neutral law, no religious neutrality, no divide between the secular and the sacred, no legitimate law outside of divine law, and no options in the entire sphere of human life other than God's way or man's way; therefore, all of society must be constructed according to God's law and there is no option for Christians to disengage from any sphere of society, nor to construct any type of religious order which will not eventually deny the religious liberty of God's enemies.
The Reconstructionist view is often illuminated, as you suggest, by the elimination of neutrality. Example: worship of Jesus is good, therefore worship of other gods is evil, therefore it must be illegal and maybe should include the death penalty. In this environment freedom of conscience or religious liberty are dangerous and should be curtailed.
When we are finished, I would like if the positions would reflect both the stated and functional beliefs of the various theological positions. For example, I would want the average Evangelical to say, "Yes, that describes our beliefs."
At times, i do cry.
1. Theocracy (Church Rules the State)
2. Erastianism (State Rules the Church)
3. Constantinian / Christendom Model (Church & State Partnership)
4. Roman Catholic “Two Swords” Doctrine
5. Lutheran “Two Kingdoms” Doctrine
6. Reformed / Calvinist View (Distinct but Cooperative)
7. Establishmentarianism (State Church Model)
8. Separation of Church and State (Institutional Separation)
9. Free Church / Voluntaryism
10. Anabaptist / Radical Separation (Nonparticipation)
11. Augustinian “Two Cities” Framework
12. Liberation Theology / Transformational Views
13. Christian Nationalism (Modern Variant)