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In another topic, the age for baptism & the age for marriage is being discussed.

I was thinking about Mary, how young she was when God sent the Angel Gabriel to tell her of her future, bringing our savior into the world. Most I have read believed her to be around 15-

Can you imagine your 15 year old talking like this?
Luke 1
46 And Mary said:

“My soul [a]magnifies the Lord,
47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
48 For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant;
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.
49 For He who is mighty has done great things for me,
And holy is His name.
50 And His mercy is on those who fear Him
From generation to generation.
51 He has shown strength with His arm;
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
52 He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
And exalted the lowly.
53 He has filled the hungry with good things,
And the rich He has sent away empty.
54 He has helped His servant Israel,
In remembrance of His mercy,
55 As He spoke to our fathers,
To Abraham and to his seed forever.”

Granted, there’s a reason Gabriel called her “highly favored one” (favored by God).

Just saying from reading the other topics it seems our youth are so less mature for their age than they used to be.
I wonder why?

I have been impressed with some youth before for the level of their maturity. Also, I’ve heard it said about children in some Third World countries being responsible for cooking, cleaning the house and taking care of their younger siblings as young as eight.

God-designed embedded software packages vary widely.

Soloist wrote: ↑Wed Dec 03, 2025 5:10 am I have been impressed with some youth before for the level of their maturity. Also, I’ve heard it said about children in some Third World countries being responsible for cooking, cleaning the house and taking care of their younger siblings as young as eight.

On average my children are more mature than was I at their age.

I've seen no biblical evidence for claiming Mary was a young teenager when she said "yes" to the angel. Her beautiful response may well have been inspired--not her own maturity. Remember that God also spoke through a donkey.

JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Wed Dec 03, 2025 8:26 am I've seen no biblical evidence for claiming Mary was a young teenager when she said "yes" to the angel. Her beautiful response may well have been inspired--not her own maturity. Remember that God also spoke through a donkey.

I’ve heard all my Christian life through Biblical teachers or pastors how she was so young, there is history of course that is not in the Bible. A lot of history- so where scholars arrived at her young age I’ve never questioned.
There is no Biblical Scripture that states this was the Holy Spirit speaking through her. Normally it says so- she was definitely highly favored for a reason-

Anyway just realizing the other topic made me agree with JohnH that people used to be considered mature & responsible at a younger age than they seem to now days, and that is “generally speaking “ and I can certainly see the difference as I work with 16 yo on up.

Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 03, 2025 9:42 am There is no Biblical Scripture that states this was the Holy Spirit speaking through her. Normally it says so-

Luke also records the response of Simeon

Because my eyes have seen your salvation, which you prepared for all people to see—a light that will reveal salvation to the gentiles and bring glory to your people Israel.”

This also seems to be prophecy, even though it isn't explicitly stated.

It can be reasonably interpreted either way, so a good argument can't be made from the speech.

Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 03, 2025 9:42 am I’ve heard all my Christian life through Biblical teachers or pastors how she was so young, there is history of course that is not in the Bible.

Do we of any early source saying she was young? The way I've heard about it, this is scholarship from the last hundred years or so, based on what they believe was typical for that time and place. I don't know how ancient the tradition that "Joseph was an old man" is, either.

JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Wed Dec 03, 2025 10:04 am

Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 03, 2025 9:42 am There is no Biblical Scripture that states this was the Holy Spirit speaking through her. Normally it says so-

Luke also records the response of Simeon

Because my eyes have seen your salvation, which you prepared for all people to see—a light that will reveal salvation to the gentiles and bring glory to your people Israel.”

This also seems to be prophecy, even though it isn't explicitly stated.

It can be reasonably interpreted either way, so a good argument can't be made from the speech.

Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 03, 2025 9:42 am I’ve heard all my Christian life through Biblical teachers or pastors how she was so young, there is history of course that is not in the Bible.

Do we of any early source saying she was young? The way I've heard about it, this is scholarship from the last hundred years or so, based on what they believe was typical for that time and place. I don't know how ancient the tradition that "Joseph was an old man" is, either.

I think the ancient Eastern Orthodox Church (which goes back to the apostles time) has a lot of historical records for example I have an orthodox study Bible and in the footnotes I learn a lot about people like the woman at the well and Zaccheaus, etc., about what their lives became after those written instances in the scripture. So they do have history they do know of Mary’s parents, their names, etc.

Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 03, 2025 2:39 am

Just saying from reading the other topics it seems our youth are so less mature for their age than they used to be.
I wonder why?

We live in a highly infantilized era where modern society dictates that adolescence lasts until age 25 and continues to call developing men and women "children." This is something that a very famous psychologist named Carl Jung called the phenomenon of the puer aeternus, the child-men, one of the greatest problems of modern society

Also, in that era, life expectancy was much lower and infant mortality was high, which is why people were accustomed to assuming adult responsibilities much earlier

Finally, the wisdom and holiness of Mary should not surprise us. God would not choose just any woman to be the earthly mother of his son; she had to be an exceptional woman to be entrusted with such a worthy honor

Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 03, 2025 10:09 am

I think the ancient Eastern Orthodox Church (which goes back to the apostles time) has a lot of historical records for example I have an orthodox study Bible and in the footnotes I learn a lot about people like the woman at the well and Zaccheaus, etc., about what their lives became after those written instances in the scripture. So they do have history they do know of Mary’s parents, their names, etc.

Wow, that's interesting! It's true that the Bible won't contain all of history because it wouldn't fit in just one book. It's like the Patristic period; the Shepherd of Hermas and the Reflections of Justin Martyr are very valid historical documents that give us a very interesting perspective on the message of Christ