Mit Brennender Sorge

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Bootstrap
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Mit Brennender Sorge

Post by Bootstrap »

Pope Pius XI wrote this encyclical on March 14, 1937 to push back on Hitler:

https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/ ... sorge.html

One excerpt:
8. Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community - however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things - whoever raises these notions above their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds.
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Szdfan
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Re: Mit Brennender Sorge

Post by Szdfan »

Unfortunately, Pope Pius XI‘s successor, Pope Pius XII, did not do as good of a job opposing Hitler.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Mit Brennender Sorge

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 8:11 pm Unfortunately, Pope Pius XI‘s successor, Pope Pius XII, did not do as good of a job opposing Hitler.
He, in fact, negotiated the “Concordat” that basically turned a blind eye to atrocities.
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Valerie
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Re: Mit Brennender Sorge

Post by Valerie »

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 2:44 pm Pope Pius XI wrote this encyclical on March 14, 1937 to push back on Hitler:

https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/ ... sorge.html

One excerpt:
8. Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community - however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things - whoever raises these notions above their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds.
That is eerie, it reminds me of Gay Pride “month”.
Example- our beautiful town put up the LGBTQ flags around our town square for a month pushing this anti-scriptural idolatry on the town which bought into the satanic idolatry of that which Hy Scripture teaches against. Blindness.

Then the idolatry of BLM which then the protests for this caused our same town to put up plywood on the Squares shop windows due to what became common at the idolatry of BLM to cause destruction of business because the protests were not peaceful.

In both cases these themes were idolized.
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Mit Brennender Sorge

Post by JimFoxvog »

Flags are idolatry? The local town, Princeton, Illinois', claim to fame is its four huge flags at the junction of Main Street and I-80. I've thought of that as idolatry; much more than putting up a flag to which few would pledge allegiance.
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Valerie
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Re: Mit Brennender Sorge

Post by Valerie »

JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 7:35 am Flags are idolatry? The local town, Princeton, Illinois', claim to fame is its four huge flags at the junction of Main Street and I-80. I've thought of that as idolatry; much more than putting up a flag to which few would pledge allegiance.
I didn’t say the flags were idolatry.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Mit Brennender Sorge

Post by Bootstrap »

Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 10:07 pm
Szdfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 8:11 pm Unfortunately, Pope Pius XI‘s successor, Pope Pius XII, did not do as good of a job opposing Hitler.
He, in fact, negotiated the “Concordat” that basically turned a blind eye to atrocities.
So I guess the saying "Two I's are better than one" doesn't always hold.
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1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Mit Brennender Sorge

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Wed Oct 22, 2025 1:06 pm
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 10:07 pm
Szdfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 8:11 pm Unfortunately, Pope Pius XI‘s successor, Pope Pius XII, did not do as good of a job opposing Hitler.
He, in fact, negotiated the “Concordat” that basically turned a blind eye to atrocities.
So I guess the saying "Two I's are better than one" doesn't always hold.
Here is what I find objectionable:

Article 16 Before taking possession of their diocese, the bishops shall take an oath of loyalty either between the hands of the Reichsstatthalter in the state (Land) in question or between those of the president of the Reich, the formula of which shall be the following: "Before God and on the Holy Gospel I swear and promise, as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the Land of (name of Land). I swear and promise to respect the government established according to the constitution and to cause the clergy of my diocese to respect it. In due solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will endeavor, while performing the spiritual office bestowed upon me, to prevent anything which might threaten to be detrimental to it."
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barnhart
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Re: Mit Brennender Sorge

Post by barnhart »

I think one reason Jesus gifted us to command to "swear not at all" is to protect his followers from falling into such traps.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Mit Brennender Sorge

Post by Bootstrap »

Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Thu Oct 23, 2025 1:01 am
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Wed Oct 22, 2025 1:06 pm
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 10:07 pmHe, in fact, negotiated the “Concordat” that basically turned a blind eye to atrocities.
So I guess the saying "Two I's are better than one" doesn't always hold.
Here is what I find objectionable:

Article 16 Before taking possession of their diocese, the bishops shall take an oath of loyalty either between the hands of the Reichsstatthalter in the state (Land) in question or between those of the president of the Reich, the formula of which shall be the following: "Before God and on the Holy Gospel I swear and promise, as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the Land of (name of Land). I swear and promise to respect the government established according to the constitution and to cause the clergy of my diocese to respect it. In due solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will endeavor, while performing the spiritual office bestowed upon me, to prevent anything which might threaten to be detrimental to it."
In the Old Testament, they often tried to serve Yahweh alongside other gods who offered various things that God didn't seem to be providing them. That's precisely what the first commandment forbids - "You shall have no other gods before my face (al panai)". It doesn't mean "you can have other gods, but I have to be the top dog god". It meant that you can't have other gods in addition. Jesus is "the only one who can save us".

In the New Testament era, it was emperor worship. Caesar demanded the loyalty, reverence, and sacrifice that belonged to God alone. Romans 13 tells Christians to be subject to Caesar, but we cannot give Caesar the loyalty, reverence, and sacrifice that he demands. We cannot sacrifice our discipleship to Caesar.

And Hitler looked a great deal like Nero Caesar. In his demands for worship. In his cruelty. In his greed and lust for absolute power. Everything was about Hitler: the Führer as savior, the state as his body, the people as his worshipers. If you weren't fully loyal, you were un-German, and in some circles, un-Christian.

That's clearly idolatry - worshiping a man instead of God.
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1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
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