What are your thoughts re Hegelian Dialectic & CRT in the Church?

[Szdfan]

Has anyone in this thread actually read Foucault or Gramsci? Has anyone here taken a class in postmodern theory?

[ohio jones]

Has anyone here taken a class in postmodern theory?

Does postmodern architectural theory (Venturi, Graves, Pelli, et al) count?

[Szdfan]

Has anyone here taken a class in postmodern theory?

Does postmodern architectural theory (Venturi, Graves, Pelli, et al) count?

I don’t know…were you deconstructing or constructing? Can you construct a deconstruction?

[MaxPC]

Has anyone in this thread actually read Foucault or Gramsci? Has anyone here taken a class in postmodern theory?

Indeed.
An old professor of mine (65 years ago) taught us courses in philosophy and theology. He gave his students the best advice I have ever heard in my long years. He said that whether it is a koan, an idea, or a complex concept, the original intentions of the author should be considered; and how those intentions have evolved into the political machinery of those ideas by the adherents.
1) Examine the writings from the POV of the author
2) Examine how those writings were used as tools and morphed to create the political systems associated with it today.
Examples of what he meant:
Mein Kampf never would have resonated nor created adherents had the German people felt less humiliated by WW1s conditions for surrender and reparations. As it happened that book struck a chord with the emotions of post-WWI Germany. The adherents took that manifesto written by a person with mental issues and made it a cause célèbre for German national identity thus becoming a political force. In short it became a tool used by others to rectify perceived wrongs.

Like Engels Karl Marx was an idealist who proposed ways in which to “repair the world”. Like Mein Kampf, Marx’ writings and manifestos were embraced by political followers with an agenda who seek to rectify the world. They too made those writings into a political school of thought. A number of attempts have been made using Marx’ writings to create an ideal society. All of them have created unintentional class systems in praxis.

At the end of the day, any man made efforts to rectify our world will fail because the ineptitude and yes, ambitions of those promoting them.

The Bible and its books contain the answers to our lives:
Repent
Believe in Jesus
Obey God’s teachings rather than human political dogmas
Spread the Good News of Jesus as Our Savior

YMMV.

[Szdfan]

Has anyone in this thread actually read Foucault or Gramsci? Has anyone here taken a class in postmodern theory?

Indeed.
An old professor of mine (65 years ago) taught us courses in philosophy and theology. He gave his students the best advice I have ever heard in my long years. He said that whether it is a koan, an idea, or a complex concept, the original intentions of the author should be considered; and how those intentions have evolved into the political machinery of those ideas by the adherents.
1) Examine the writings from the POV of the author
2) Examine how those writings were used as tools and morphed to create the political systems associated with it today.
Examples of what he meant:
Mein Kampf never would have resonated nor created adherents had the German people felt less humiliated by WW1s conditions for surrender and reparations. As it happened that book struck a chord with the emotions of post-WWI Germany. The adherents took that manifesto written by a person with mental issues and made it a cause célèbre for German national identity thus becoming a political force. In short it became a tool used by others to rectify perceived wrongs.

Like Engels Karl Marx was an idealist who proposed ways in which to “repair the world”. Like Mein Kampf, Marx’ writings and manifestos were embraced by political followers with an agenda who seek to rectify the world. They too made those writings into a political school of thought. A number of attempts have been made using Marx’ writings to create an ideal society. All of them have created unintentional class systems in praxis.

At the end of the day, any man made efforts to rectify our world will fail because the ineptitude and yes, ambitions of those promoting them.

The Bible and its books contain the answers to our lives:
Repent
Believe in Jesus
Obey God’s teachings rather than human political dogmas
Spread the Good News of Jesus as Our Savior

YMMV.

This doesn’t answer my question. Has anyone actually read the writing being discussed here?

[Falco Underhill]

Has anyone in this thread actually read Foucault or Gramsci? Has anyone here taken a class in postmodern theory?

Gramsci a little bit. Foucault I've only just recently heard of. I'm no expert, but I do have a Bachelor's degree in philosophy - going way back.

Okay, now you — what's your qualifications ?

[Bootstrap]

Has anyone in this thread actually read Foucault or Gramsci? Has anyone here taken a class in postmodern theory?

Gramsci a little bit. Foucault I've only just recently heard of. I'm no expert, but I do have a Bachelor's degree in philosophy - going way back.

Okay, now you — what's your qualifications ?

I have read neither Foucault nor Gramsci. I have read some Heidegger, few people I know have. I think that's a pretty good indication of how influential they are on most of our thinking.

I suspect most of us would also find Hegel very hard to read. I would be surprised if many people here have mastered Hegel. I have read some Hegel, in English and in German, and some Heidegger, mostly in German.. I don't see any real connection between either of them and Critical Race Theory. I don't think either Russell Moore or J.D.Greear are in the same camp as either of these movements.

Qualifications? None. I took a few philosophy classes, I have read a fair amount of philosophy. I sometimes think I understand what I read.

[Falco Underhill]

I have read neither Foucault nor Gramsci. I have read some Heidegger, few people I know have. I think that's a pretty good indication of how influential they are on most of our thinking.

I suspect most of us would also find Hegel very hard to read. I would be surprised if many people here have mastered Hegel. I have read some Hegel, in English and in German, and some Heidegger, mostly in German.

I'm still trying to understand Hegel. I'm getting better at it. Out of necessity not interest. Hegel was in love with power. He was looking for the magic words to shape the future of the zeitgeist. (The culture) That was his passion and his connection to Marxism, Gramsci and Critical Race Theory. The whole thing is a pitiful melodrama, imo.

I don't think either Russell Moore or J.D.Greear are in the same camp as either of these movements.

I'd be more interested in hearing opinions on why CRT should be rejected on principle (or why you think they should accept it, if that's your opinion) rather than turn it to a discussion about personalities again, which would likely degenerate into another shouting match.

At any rate, I just don't want to go there.

[MaxPC]

Has anyone in this thread actually read Foucault or Gramsci? Has anyone here taken a class in postmodern theory?

Indeed.
An old professor of mine (65 years ago) taught us courses in philosophy and theology. He gave his students the best advice I have ever heard in my long years. He said that whether it is a koan, an idea, or a complex concept, the original intentions of the author should be considered; and how those intentions have evolved into the political machinery of those ideas by the adherents.
1) Examine the writings from the POV of the author
2) Examine how those writings were used as tools and morphed to create the political systems associated with it today.
Examples of what he meant:
Mein Kampf never would have resonated nor created adherents had the German people felt less humiliated by WW1s conditions for surrender and reparations. As it happened that book struck a chord with the emotions of post-WWI Germany. The adherents took that manifesto written by a person with mental issues and made it a cause célèbre for German national identity thus becoming a political force. In short it became a tool used by others to rectify perceived wrongs.

Like Engels Karl Marx was an idealist who proposed ways in which to “repair the world”. Like Mein Kampf, Marx’ writings and manifestos were embraced by political followers with an agenda who seek to rectify the world. They too made those writings into a political school of thought. A number of attempts have been made using Marx’ writings to create an ideal society. All of them have created unintentional class systems in praxis.

At the end of the day, any man made efforts to rectify our world will fail because the ineptitude and yes, ambitions of those promoting them.

The Bible and its books contain the answers to our lives:
Repent
Believe in Jesus
Obey God’s teachings rather than human political dogmas
Spread the Good News of Jesus as Our Savior

YMMV.

This doesn’t answer my question. Has anyone actually read the writing being discussed here?

Read it again and you will see that I have.

Szdfan: do you think that the current political paradigms and praxis truly reflect the original manifestos of these individuals?

Personally (and yes we studied these manifestos in comparative philosophy), I see the political movements that claim a connection to the authors have twisted the narrative to meet their own socio-political agendas. Man made philosophies die in the face of God’s Eternal Truth. I choose to identify with God’s Kingdom instead of weak, man made philosophies.

On what is your identity based? Is it based on God’s teachings? On opposing paradigms? On man made systems?

[Josh]

Has anyone in this thread actually read Foucault or Gramsci? Has anyone here taken a class in postmodern theory?

Gramsci a little bit. Foucault I've only just recently heard of. I'm no expert, but I do have a Bachelor's degree in philosophy - going way back.

Okay, now you — what's your qualifications ?

I read Foucault’s original writings but never got into Gramsci.