Christian Nationalism

[Neto]

What I see him putting forward is a distinction between Dominionism and evangelism.

Here, for example, is C. Peter Wagner with the opposite view:

We've got to understand that Dominion mandate is another way of saying the Great Commission because when Jesus sent his disciples out he told them to go and make disciples of all nations. Now get that idea. Make disciples of what? All nations. It doesn't say in this point (it does in other places) doesn't say at that scripture to make disciples of individuals out there, it says make disciples of all nations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WboWrp-Cwo

If this isn't "Christian nationalism" I don't know what is.

I was frankly surprised to see this as a quote from C. Peter Wagner. (Yes, I saw the video as well.) The word translated 'nations' there is a form of the word ethnos, which is more properly 'ethnicities'. Also, the word translated 'disciples' is not a noun in the text, it is an imperative verb meaning 'discipling'.

(I'm reminded of something my hermeneutics teacher told me while going over a sermon I had prepared. He asked me about my interpretation of a certain verse. He asked me if that was what I really thought it meant. I said No, I understood it as something else, and explained how I saw it. Why, then, did I use the other interpretation? he asked. Because of so-and-so's commentary, I said. He must be correct. No, he said, your interpretation is correct, and his was wrong. I don't think I'm always correct, but we are responsible to correctly explain the Word of God, and not just automatically bow to the well-known preacher or commentator.)

EDIT:
My acquaintance with Wagner is nearly 50 years in the past, so maybe he changed, or maybe I just do not remember. It sounds to me like something a person would say who believes that the Church is to prepare the Kingdom for Jesus' return, so that all he has to do is accept the kingship.

[Neto]

... I’ll admit I never really heard of Christian Nationalism as a thing before coming to this forum. In my context
-There’s patriotism.
-There’s church.
But I’ve never heard of patriotic Christians being called Christian Nationalists.
“Christian Nationalists” - it seems to me to be a label that was created to target and demonize people who are patriots and go to church. I said “it seems”. It doesn’t mean I’m right about that. It’s just the impression I get from the context of the discussion.

I will say that it is a matter of degrees or objective - what the person does with their patriotism. (I don't vote but) I do not personally see a Christian who 'votes his or her Christian conscience' as being a 'Religious Nationalist'.

[Ernie]

Back to the topic I’ll admit I never really heard of Christian Nationalism as a thing before coming to this forum. In my context
-There’s patriotism.
-There’s church.
But I’ve never heard of patriotic Christians being called Christian Nationalists.
“Christian Nationalists” - it seems to me to be a label that was created to target and demonize people who are patriots and go to church. I said “it seems”. It doesn’t mean I’m right about that. It’s just the impression I get from the context of the discussion.

I can understand that the rank and file in America are not familiar with the term, if they are not tuning into the public discourse of those who are shaping public opinion. I've heard it said that it takes about 50 years for the ideas proposed by theologians and philosophers to make their way into government and other influencers. And from there, the ideas are disseminated throughout general society, sometimes using different terminology.

There are many public figures who self-identify as Christian nationalists.
Marjorie Taylor Greene believes most patriotic Christians are Christian nationalists. (Just because she believes this, doesn't necessarily make it accurate, but many would agree with her.)

[Ernie]

Here are some quotes from public figures...

Marjorie Taylor Greene — U.S. Representative (Georgia)
“We need to be the party of nationalism. I’m a Christian, and I say it proudly — we should be Christian nationalists.”
“But when I said that I’m a Christian nationalist, I have nothing to be ashamed of, because that’s what most Americans are.”

Josh Hawley — U.S. Senator (Missouri)
"Some will say now that I am calling America a Christian nation. So I am. And some will say that I am advocating Christian nationalism. And so I do. Is there any other kind worth having? Most nationalisms have a bloody history, from Rome’s militarism to pagan ethnocentrism to fascist totalitarianism. But the Christian version of nationalism—the healthy patriotism that built America—was something altogether different. Christian nationalism is not a threat to our democracy. Quite the opposite. Christian nationalism founded our democracy. It is the wellspring of our liberties, our justice, our common purpose. And this is what Christian nationalism means, in the truest and deepest sense. Not every citizen of America is a Christian, obviously, and never will be. But every citizen is heir to the liberties, to the justice, to the common purpose our biblical and Christian tradition gives us.”
“We are a nation forged from Augustine’s vision … a nation defined by the dignity of the common man as given to us in the Christian religion … I am calling America a Christian nation. And some will say that I am advocating Christian nationalism. And so I do.”
“Without the Bible, there is no modernity. Without the Bible, there is no America.”
“The nationalism of Rome led to blood-thirst and conquest; the old pagan tribalisms led to ethnic hatred. … By contrast, Augustine’s Christian nationalism has been the boast of the West.”

Lauren Boebert — U.S. Representative (Colorado)
“The church is supposed to direct the government, the government is not supposed to direct the church.”
“I’m tired of this separation of church and state junk — that’s not in the Constitution. It was in a stinking letter and it means nothing like what they say it does.”

Doug Wilson — Pastor of Christ Church (Moscow, Idaho); Theologian and Author
“If there is no God above the state, the state is god.”
“The Christian nationalist is the one who’s willing to answer that question, and speaking into the microphone: the true God, the living God, the one who exists.”
“When someone says, well, that’s Christian nationalism, I can — well, I can work with that.”

Lance Wallnau — Evangelical Speaker and Author; Conservative Media Figure
“Yes, I am a Christian nationalist. And I will take the flag that God gave us, with his blessed freedom and blessed government and blessed nation, and I will take that flag and lead them to the cross.”
“People say, ‘Oh, Lance, I don't know, you sound like a Christian nationalist.’ Yes, I am a Christian nationalist. And I will take the flag that God gave us, with his blessed freedom and blessed government and blessed nation, and I will take that flag and lead them to the cross.”

Stephen Wolfe — Political Theorist; Author of The Case for Christian Nationalism
“You know what, fine, I am a Christian nationalist. And let's define that, and let's do this project of retrieval and recovery...”

Sean Feucht — Christian musician, worship leader
“Hell hates it that we’re worshipping at every capitol across America.… That’s why we get called, ‘Well, you’re Christian nationalists. You want the kingdom to be the government?’ Yes! ‘You want God to come and overtake the government?’ Yes! ‘You want Christians to be the only ones?’ Yes, we do.”
“We want believers to be the ones writing the laws. Yes. Guilty as charged.”

Charlie Kirk — Founding leader of Turning Point USA
“One of the reasons we're living through a constitutional crisis is that we no longer have a Christian nation, but we have a Christian form of government, and they're incompatible. You cannot have liberty if you do not have a Christian population.”
“This is a Christian state. I’d like to see it stay that way.”

Greg Locke — Pastor of Global Vision Bible Church (Tennessee)
“You cannot be a Christian and vote Democrat in this nation.”
“We need some real Christians, some real pastors, some real people, some real Americans—I don’t care, call me a Christian nationalist all you want.”

Andrew Torba — Founder & CEO of Gab
“We are going to build a coalition of Christian nationalists, of Christians, of Christian candidates at the state, local, and federal levels, and we’re gonna take this country back for the glory of God.”
“This is a Christian movement, full stop. The only way that we’re going to gain any ground in the culture, in the government, in taking our towns, our cities, our states, our counties in our country back is by putting Jesus Christ first.”
“You degenerate pagans and atheists and non-believers went way too far … now we’re going to take dominion of this country, of our culture, of news, of entertainment, of technology, of education, of everything for the glory of Jesus Christ, our King.”
“Me loving my neighbor is wanting my neighbor to be ruled by wise biblical Christian men.”

[JohnH]

I'm having a hard time understanding people who say America's government shouldn't follow Christian principles.

Here are some Christian principles:

- Telling the truth instead of lying
- Not being warmongers and not running around killing people.
- Being kind to the downtrodden and caring about the poor

I don't think it's somehow an improvement for a government to embrace deception and lying, even though doing so would mean it would be less "Christian nationalist". I don't see what's wrong with wanting a Christian nation, in the sense of a "nation" being a "group of people". I think it's good for people not to lie and kill.

[JohnL]

Back to the topic I’ll admit I never really heard of Christian Nationalism as a thing before coming to this forum. In my context
-There’s patriotism.
-There’s church.
But I’ve never heard of patriotic Christians being called Christian Nationalists.
“Christian Nationalists” - it seems to me to be a label that was created to target and demonize people who are patriots and go to church. I said “it seems”. It doesn’t mean I’m right about that. It’s just the impression I get from the context of the discussion.

What do you think of the C. Peter Wagner quote from OJ several posts above where he fuses the great commission with dominance at the national level.

I think the views of just an outspoken few should not be generalized and used as a label to broadly mischaracterize the average patriot who goes to church and cares for his family. Those that I know don’t trust the government either. They appreciate the Constitution but not the politicians who misuse language to deceive the public.

[R7ehr]

I'm having a hard time understanding people who say America's government shouldn't follow Christian principles.

Here are some Christian principles:

- Telling the truth instead of lying
- Not being warmongers and not running around killing people.
- Being kind to the downtrodden and caring about the poor

I don't think it's somehow an improvement for a government to embrace deception and lying, even though doing so would mean it would be less "Christian nationalist". I don't see what's wrong with wanting a Christian nation, in the sense of a "nation" being a "group of people". I think it's good for people not to lie and kill.

Maybe it stems from the pollution of Christs name, and not from the idea that Christianity is bad for government.
Maybe it is something like Godly jealousy, a ring in a pigs snout. Might seem to make society better, but at an unaffordable cost. It’s a short cut, that undercuts.

Mixing a steaming pile of manure with frozen delicious ice cream may not hurt the manure. But it sure doesn’t help the ice cream, it ruins it.

Like the mixing that God forbid his people to do with the people of Canaan. Seems like it would have helped the heathen but God forbid it.

[JohnH]

Maybe it stems from the pollution of Christs name, and not from the idea that Christianity is bad for government.
Maybe it is something like Godly jealousy, a ring in a pigs snout. Might seem to make society better, but at an unaffordable cost. It’s a short cut, that undercuts.

Yet most Christians have been perfectly comfortable accepting ideas like that America is a Christian nation, founded on Christian principles, and so on. Obviously the plainest of Anabaptists didn't embrace that, but nearly everyone else did.

So my question is why some speak out so vociferously against it in the present era... it seems what they are really saying is the disagree with the political positions of certain people, and are cloaking their political disagreement as if their political positions are somehow more godly. In other words, they are doing the exact same thing they claim shouldn't be done.

[ohio jones]

I'm having a hard time understanding people who say America's government shouldn't follow Christian principles.

Here are some Christian principles:

- Telling the truth instead of lying
- Not being warmongers and not running around killing people.
- Being kind to the downtrodden and caring about the poor

I don't think it's somehow an improvement for a government to embrace deception and lying, even though doing so would mean it would be less "Christian nationalist". I don't see what's wrong with wanting a Christian nation, in the sense of a "nation" being a "group of people". I think it's good for people not to lie and kill.

No, those are not explicitly Christian principles. They are basic moral principles with which many religions (Buddhism, for example) would agree. America's government should of course do a better job of following them, but that would not in any sense make America "Christian."

[joshuabgood]

Today we honor Christopher Columbus and all of the European pioneers who came in his footsteps to claim this land for Christ. We celebrate the conquest of civilization over Stone Age savagery, and we recommit ourselves to defend civilization against the forces of chaos and barbarism that threaten it today. Happy Columbus Day!

From Matt Walsh.