Prayers for the Catholic Church

[Ken]

Read for content:

i wrote:
From what i’ve read, many states require Catholic leaders and teachers to be mandatory reporters,
with the exception of formal confession.

The Seal of Confession is what’s at stake. It’s important to CC.
To repeat, abusers LIE. This law is no gain for victims. Lip service is worse than nothing. Insulting.

In my view, abusers who actually confess MAY have an opportunity to repent.
Reporting only encourages them to continue in LYING and all manner grave sin.

i’m not for enabling. i’m also not for do-nothing laws that harm more than help.

(i suspect) those pushing this law have general hatred for the CC and want to do harm to it.
In the Seattle area, plenty of it.

Not unlike hillary+obama, saying they’re fine with Christians, as long as Christians conform to THEIR beliefs.

Pope Leo XIV is encouraging. Based in/from Chicago, he’ll have necessary experience with evil.

Yes. Covering up for pedophiles has worked so well for them in the past. Why change.

[temporal1]

Yes. Covering up for pedophiles has worked so well for them in the past. Why change.

i don’t believe you read the linked reports or what i posted.
In any event, we’re about to see how things are with Pope Leo XIV, and, i hope it goes to SCOTUS.

No one could be more disgusted with the history, more grateful it was brought to light as it was in the 1990’s, and not dismissed to this day. i’m very sad those revelations opened doors to more chaos, but that’s what sin does. It metastasizes.

Poor laws are worse than useless.

[JohnH]

Read for content:

i wrote:
From what i’ve read, many states require Catholic leaders and teachers to be mandatory reporters,
with the exception of formal confession.

The Seal of Confession is what’s at stake. It’s important to CC.
To repeat, abusers LIE. This law is no gain for victims. Lip service is worse than nothing. Insulting.

In my view, abusers who actually confess MAY have an opportunity to repent.
Reporting only encourages them to continue in LYING and all manner grave sin.

i’m not for enabling. i’m also not for do-nothing laws that harm more than help.

(i suspect) those pushing this law have general hatred for the CC and want to do harm to it.
In the Seattle area, plenty of it.

Not unlike hillary+obama, saying they’re fine with Christians, as long as Christians conform to THEIR beliefs.

Pope Leo XIV is encouraging. Based in/from Chicago, he’ll have necessary experience with evil.

Yes. Covering up for pedophiles has worked so well for them in the past. Why change.

That is a gross mis characterisation of the confessional seal.

[Ken]

Read for content:
The Seal of Confession is what’s at stake. It’s important to CC.
To repeat, abusers LIE. This law is no gain for victims. Lip service is worse than nothing. Insulting.

In my view, abusers who actually confess MAY have an opportunity to repent.
Reporting only encourages them to continue in LYING and all manner grave sin.

i’m not for enabling. i’m also not for do-nothing laws that harm more than help.

(i suspect) those pushing this law have general hatred for the CC and want to do harm to it.
In the Seattle area, plenty of it.

Not unlike hillary+obama, saying they’re fine with Christians, as long as Christians conform to THEIR beliefs.

Pope Leo XIV is encouraging. Based in/from Chicago, he’ll have necessary experience with evil.

Yes. Covering up for pedophiles has worked so well for them in the past. Why change.

That is a gross mis characterisation of the confessional seal.

Think about it for half a second. Pedophiles are very devious psychopaths for the most part. They do not walk into the confessional and say "Bless me father for I have sinned, I raped three children this past week". That sort of thing doesn't happen. Pedophiles don't tell on themselves. They keep going until they are stopped.

The vastly more likely scenario is that a child is going to tell a priest what is happening inside the confessional. Because in the Catholic world, that is basically your only time you have to talk to a priest 1:1 in private. Then what? Because the priest found out inside the confessional that a child is being subject to ongoing sexual abuse they do nothing?

The law in Washington doesn't actually say anything at all about the confessional. Just that priests and pastors are mandatory reporters. And only for the crime of child sexual abuse which is a crime with ongoing innocent victims. Not any other ordinary property crime or violent crime.

[JohnH]

Before entering the confessional, should a priest read you your Miranda rights?

You have the right to remain silent and not confess anything. Anything you confess can and will be told to the police, who will use it against you in a court of law. You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before you confess anything. You have the right to have a lawyer with you during confessing, although it could get a bit crowded in here. If you cannot afford a lawyer, that's too bad - we won't provide one for you. If you decide to confess now without a lawyer present, you have the right to stop confessing at any time.

What other crimes should this extend to? Immigration violations? Should priests go narc out their parishioners to ICE if they hear in the confessional booth that someone overstayed their visas?

[Ken]

Before entering the confessional, should a priest read you your Miranda rights?

You have the right to remain silent and not confess anything. Anything you confess can and will be told to the police, who will use it against you in a court of law. You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before you confess anything. You have the right to have a lawyer with you during confessing, although it could get a bit crowded in here. If you cannot afford a lawyer, that's too bad - we won't provide one for you. If you decide to confess now without a lawyer present, you have the right to stop confessing at any time.

What other crimes should this extend to? Immigration violations? Should priests go narc out their parishioners to ICE if they hear in the confessional booth that someone overstayed their visas?

This particular law only says that priests and ministers have to report child sexual abuse when they become aware of it. Nothing else.

For decades if not centuries the Catholic Church thought it was above the law when it came to child sexual abuse and look where that got them. Nowhere good. Their past actions (or inactions) are why these laws are necessary in the first place.

[JohnH]

This particular law only says that priests and ministers have to report child sexual abuse when they become aware of it. Nothing else.

Yeah, and once the precedent of the confessional seal is broken, it will expand to other crimes. Would you really expect the confessional seal to remain sacred for (for example) murder or adult sexual abuse?

For decades if not centuries the Catholic Church thought it was above the law when it came to child sexual abuse and look where that got them. Nowhere good. Their past actions (or inactions) are why these laws are necessary in the first place.

The Catholic Church scandals were not because of the confessional seal (unless you have evidence to offer to the contrary). Overall, priests hearing confessions should not be treated like police officers.

Could you answer my question if you would support priests being obligated to turn in any information in a confession over to the state regarding immigration violations?

[Thomas_muntzer]

Because that is the alternative. Pedophilia isn't about forgiveness for some crime you did in the past. It is about what you are going to CONTINUE to do until someone stops you. This isn't about any old crime like bank robbery or even murder. It is specifically and only about ongoing child abuse and pedophilia.

The reason for this serious problem in the Catholic Church can be found in the unbiblical requirement of mandatory celibacy for priests. If Peter was supposedly the first pope and was married, what was the basis for mandatory celibacy?

I did a little research and found it was the Lateran Council in the 12th century that established this rule, which is not even close to the time of Jesus' ministry.

[JohnH]

Because that is the alternative. Pedophilia isn't about forgiveness for some crime you did in the past. It is about what you are going to CONTINUE to do until someone stops you. This isn't about any old crime like bank robbery or even murder. It is specifically and only about ongoing child abuse and pedophilia.

The reason for this serious problem in the Catholic Church can be found in the unbiblical requirement of mandatory celibacy for priests. If Peter was supposedly the first pope and was married, what was the basis for mandatory celibacy?

I did a little research and found it was the Lateran Council in the 12th century that established this rule, which is not even close to the time of Jesus' ministry.

It's not even required by the Catholic Church. Just the Latin Rite.

[Thomas_muntzer]

It's not even required by the Catholic Church. Just the Latin Rite.

What you mean is not required ? Priests can't marry and that goes literally against scripture 1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;