Do Plain Catholics exist?

[Judas Maccabeus]

Another way to pursue your questions is through PMs.

You keep assuming I haven’t done that.

This is a public discussion about publicly made claims.

Also, if the forum monitors suspect that Plain Catholics are being promoted here they will deal with it. You can always privately discuss this with the monitors as they do the policing role to try to keep us in line. If they want to continue allowing what I think is far beyond 'simple asking for more information' then have at it.

Nobody is objecting to promotion (maybe JM is). What we are objecting to is claims made that there are people living homesteading lifestyles, who call themselves “Plain Catholics”, and whose women wear cape dresses and kapps, which is the claim made.

[quotd]Personally, I have no doubt that 'Plain Catholics' exist and if there is only one person who regards themself as a 'Plain Catholic', so be it. However, I believe there are many, although their use of the word 'plain' likely differs from 'Plain Mennonites'. I'm satisfied with the proof I see on the Internet.

The “proof” on the Internet is pictures of plain Anabaptists. It is entirely reasonable to question such claims.
[/quote]

I don’t object to its “promotion “. I simply want onlookers to understand what it almost certainly is. I can see no other explanation.

[Sudsy]

Josh, I think we are just going to continue going in circles on this and I could pick apart your last post but I'm done on this. As I previously posted 'have at it'. I have my views on what you and some others are up to and I will stop posting on this and observe how this works out. If the monitors want to allow this pursuit of whether or not Plain Catholics exist, that is their call. I am through giving my 2 cents. Have a nice day !

[ken_sylvania]

I admit to having been skeptical about whether Plain Catholics exist, but I did recently come across a series of blog posts from around 2009? or thereabouts where an individual mentions that their family had joined the Plain Catholics, and another from around 2013 in which a poster references a family that attends their Catholic church but dresses like Amish (he wasn't favorable to the practice).

This makes me think they might actually exist even if there are not many of them.

[Josh]

I admit to having been skeptical about whether Plain Catholics exist, but I did recently come across a series of blog posts from around 2009? or thereabouts where an individual mentions that their family had joined the Plain Catholics, and another from around 2013 in which a poster references a family that attends their Catholic church but dresses like Amish (he wasn't favorable to the practice).

This makes me think they might actually exist even if there are not many of them.

I found the following things when I looked into it a few years ago. (Some of it is still around; most of it is gone and isn't archived anywhere.)

Someone called "MiriamB" made 16 posts on a Catholic forum. Her third post was one about Menno Simons, where she claims to have Mennonite family relations:

I know I'm late on this but I'll put down what I know; I have family who are Mennonites. I have read Menno Simons' works and all the stories about him. Here are the conclusions that I have drawn about him and some of my Mennonite family have drawn these same conclusions:

- He was very bitter and angry; anything remotely associated with the Catholic Church he declared as wrong. He carried a blind hatred.
- He was very paranoid. He was so afraid of being betrayed that he would go to extremes to avoid meeting with people he didn't know. Most of the Anabaptists did not get this paranoid. They trusted God. Menno Simons was fearful all the time.
- He was very wrong about a lot of doctrines.

That's just the point of view of some Mennonite family and myself. There are Mennonites today that feel Menno Simons had too many problems to become a proper spiritual leader so they have gone back to the Bible and redetermined some of the doctrinal issues.

Her next few posts involve her claiming to have become a "plain Catholic" and then claiming to be busy with sewing, homeschooling, and so on.

I remain convinced that this is entirely an online phenomenon. One reason I say this, in particular, is because I associate with some North American Catholics who are quite familiar with the Catholic Land Movement, which MaxPC claims Plain Catholicism emerged from in the 1930s, yet they have never heard of this at all. These people are quite serious about things like homesteading and trying to live simpler lives, yet they have never heard of Plain Catholicism. One of them even searched for it, and their web searches resulted in forum posts on MennoNet, so they asked me if I knew anything about it.

MaxPC continues to claim it is a 100-year-old movement and that multiple people claim to be Plain Catholics, yet at the same time he is completely unwilling to submit any more information than the few websites already discussed in these threads. In particular, the people I mentioned above would be interested in making contact with other Catholic families. So far, my requests to facilitate that connection have been rebuffed.

MaxPC, are you willing to help make this connection? In addition to settling the question once and for all of "do Plain Catholics exist?", it would also be a blessing to these folks who are interested in finding like-minded people. They are, however, not really interested in Internet phenomena.

[Valerie]

Someone please let me know when this hunt is over please. At this point I'm highly disappointed in y'all. And hold Max in higher esteem. This is absolutely ridiculous. Reminds me of the mob against Jesus.

Glad I didn't see a thread like this when I was new to forum. It's stinks

[Judas Maccabeus]

Someone please let me know when this hunt is over please. At this point I'm highly disappointed in y'all. And hold Max in higher esteem. This is absolutely ridiculous. Reminds me of the mob against Jesus.

Glad I didn't see a thread like this when I was new to forum. It's stinks

You may hold Max in high esteem, you have that right. And he is intelligent, well read, and a tireless promoter of Papism.

There can be no union, or compromise with the doctrines of Papism, such as infant baptism, Purgatory, transubstantiation and the authority of the pope. None. Never.

You may have the ability to compromise, most of us do not. If we comprise on any of these positions, we cease to be Anabaptists.

I hope you know that Eastern Orthodox reject Purgatory and the authority of the Pope............

[Valerie]

Someone please let me know when this hunt is over please. At this point I'm highly disappointed in y'all. And hold Max in higher esteem. This is absolutely ridiculous. Reminds me of the mob against Jesus.

Glad I didn't see a thread like this when I was new to forum. It's stinks

You may hold Max in high esteem, you have that right. And he is intelligent, well read, and a tireless promoter of Papism.

There can be no union, or compromise with the doctrines of Papism, such as infant baptism, Purgatory, transubstantiation and the authority of the pope. None. Never.

You may have the ability to compromise, most of us do not. If we comprise on any of these positions, we cease to be Anabaptists.

I hope you know that Eastern Orthodox reject Purgatory and the authority of the Pope............

Where we differ is what we see Max as doing here. It is not compromising on my part to have observed him these several years and conclude he is NOT proselytizing. He's answered questions, handled his attackers (or enemies it seems) as Jesus taught and from my perspective he is not forcing or even trying to force his views. Like it or not, he is a brother according to what our salvation is gained by. You're behaving like an angry mob. Max is seeking fellowship and all through the years shown admiration for the Anabaptist people and share some things in common. I came as a seeker however after many years I still appreciate & glean from however do not see Anabaptists as "infallible" & don't as gree 100,% on everything which seems a requirement. I can view Catholics and Anabaptists as part of the body of Christ as we will not be judged "on that day" by Church affiliation.

I realize Eastern Orthodox do not agree on some Catholic doctrines, this the Great Schism and EO has been instrumental in their teachings to us. No church saves us, but some of you suspect Max is trying to convert you rather than try to honor Jesus' prayer of John 17. I don't think God is glorified by sectarianism.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Someone please let me know when this hunt is over please. At this point I'm highly disappointed in y'all. And hold Max in higher esteem. This is absolutely ridiculous. Reminds me of the mob against Jesus.

Glad I didn't see a thread like this when I was new to forum. It's stinks

You may hold Max in high esteem, you have that right. And he is intelligent, well read, and a tireless promoter of Papism.

There can be no union, or compromise with the doctrines of Papism, such as infant baptism, Purgatory, transubstantiation and the authority of the pope. None. Never.

You may have the ability to compromise, most of us do not. If we comprise on any of these positions, we cease to be Anabaptists.

I hope you know that Eastern Orthodox reject Purgatory and the authority of the Pope............

Where we differ is what we see Max as doing here. It is not compromising on my part to have observed him these several years and conclude he is NOT proselytizing. He's answered questions, handled his attackers (or enemies it seems) as Jesus taught and from my perspective he is not forcing or even trying to force his views. Like it or not, he is a brother according to what our salvation is gained by. You're behaving like an angry mob. Max is seeking fellowship and all through the years shown admiration for the Anabaptist people and share some things in common. I came as a seeker however after many years I still appreciate & glean from however do not see Anabaptists as "infallible" & don't as gree 100,% on everything which seems a requirement. I can view Catholics and Anabaptists as part of the body of Christ as we will not be judged "on that day" by Church affiliation.

I realize Eastern Orthodox do not agree on some Catholic doctrines, this the Great Schism and EO has been instrumental in their teachings to us. No church saves us, but some of you suspect Max is trying to convert you rather than try to honor Jesus' prayer of John 17. I don't think God is glorified by sectarianism.

If you are not endeavoring to present Roman Catholic doctrine to Anabaptists why be here. Why try to present your case to others that reject your views?

Answer: To win them over.

What other reason is there? We regard popery and infant baptism as the highest and greatest error. Just calling it out for what it is.

Tell me, what kind of reception would I get on a Catholic forum?

[Bootstrap]

He's answered questions, handled his attackers (or enemies it seems) as Jesus taught ...

I disagree. I don't think Max is giving direct answers to direct questions. And I think there is a difference between "I don't believe this" and enmity. In fact, calling this persecution or attacks is just an excuse for not answering the questions - often, implying negative things about the person who asks the question instead of answering it. And saying the questions have all been answered many times ... is the kind of answer we got in the past. No, these questions have not been answered, and even if they had, answering them now would be a good idea.

Saying "These aren't Catholics, this is a picture of German Baptists, or a building in an open air museum, or a building in a State Park" is not religious persecution. Pointing to official church doctrine to say what Catholics believe is not religious persecution. Doubting that Catholics believe certain things is not religious persecution.

Why not just give direct answers to direct questions? Why not clearly acknowledge differences in belief? Most of the enmity comes from treating honest questions as an offense. Instead of answering them.

[Soloist]

Even just making the claim of “we don’t take photographs and we use these pictures to show a small view of our life” would answer the question of why steal photos. It certainly wouldn’t answer the many lies about these photos.

The internet has a far longer memory then people and there is many documented statements from several companion “plain Catholic” websites that are fabricated and shown to be false.

Even if Max was entirely honest, none of the pages he has linked to have been honest. He has a pattern to how he responds to accusations of lies.
Says the person dislikes Catholics and is hate filled. Makes passive aggressive jabs about an unspecified person and goes silent in response to questions asking him to show any proof.
He’s done it at two or three times now when I or others have pointed out that what he claims is not true.
There was the picture of the Catholic Church with glass on the walls, he refused to admit it even in the face of documented pictures.
There was the athletics dying of cardiac problems from the vaccines that he claimed was documented in peer reviewed journals that no one could find anywhere and he refused to provide any supporting proof.
Then multiple times over this plain Catholic nonsense.

All of these are well documented at this point so anyone questioning his reputation can easily check and then decide if plain Catholics is an internet claim or reality.
Reputation is carved in 0 and 1 and is unchanged thanks to tools like way back machine or personal archives of Menno discuss.