Poll: Saved or Unsaved?

[Ernie]

I agree Josh. It's always confounded me why some evangelicals feel a need to send "missions" to the Amish. What makes them think that somehow making the Amish conform to the wider society is a good thing leading to salvation?

We have a few people here on MN who claim that the reason the Amish need to convert to other denominations is because...

the Amish have had denominational splits.

So according to these folks, should Orthodox and Catholics become Donatists or should Donatists become Orthodox or Catholic?

Should Catholics become Orthodox or should Orthodox become Catholic?

[JayP]

Within the context of what does Saved mean, there is no need for Orthodox or Roman Catholics to move from one group to the other.
They each view the other has, well let me say “fine” rather than saved. That is , their salvation is not dependent on making that change.

I am always fascinated by the detailed fiction on “saved”. I think the topic within Anabaptist circles is n example of where they have been impacted by Fundementalist thinking.

It’s not that the issue of saved, although I prefer salvation, is not real or important.
Rather than pedantic arguments. I am quite fine working out my salvation with fear and trembling, with hope, and trusting to the mercy and judgment of God. How I love and worship God, how my daily life demonstrates my love of God through my life works today, than getting the right words in yet another debate on “saved” is much more a factor in my eventual salvation.

I see little practical effect from those that stress their assurance of salvation in terms of their life’s effects on others.

[JayP]

Catholics, believe it or not, hold that salvation is a gift through Jesus Christ, freely available through grace, faith and baptism.
The two sticking points that make it hard for fundamentalist types to come to peace with, is that Catholics are not all wrapped up 8n this assurance of salvation concept and have a different view of works.

Our salvation is not a simple, one time binary thing. I raised my hand in 3rd grade so I am saved for all time. I think most Catholics, with out being disrespectful find that either absurd or silly.

Our life must have good works. Not because they save us but they go hand in hand with obedience to God. We as humans do not have rulers to measure just how much sin at a moment sinks you. We are working out our salvation woh fear and trembling. Mass through communion and other acts (starting with baptism) help us receive grace. Catholics recognize levels of sin (venial versus mortal), some being cleansed through attending mass, others via confession, but both requiring a contrite heart.

Whereas a fundamentalist has to reconcile is that guy we thought saved, who looks to be sinning, still “saved” or was it a not real “saved”, etc. Catholics view all of life as a battle against sin, some of us failing more than others at different times, continually seeking God’s grace and mercy. Seems rather obvious (not because I am Catholic) but because one only needs to observe human nature.


I just reread Schindlers List. I wonder what fundamentalists think of him. A life of sin, interrupted by great works of Charity. Before you give me the “all your works are filthy rags….” He was a man who gave up all his money, risked his own life repeatedly to save people’s lives. I firmly believe God is not a lawyer, deciding individual’s salvation by a checklist.

Sorry if the slight detour detracts.

[Robert]

I was saved almost 2000 years ago.

[Sudsy]

I was saved almost 2000 years ago.

I agree the gift was made possible some 2000 years ago. But it is a gift I must receive. With free will I can refuse it. To me, it is a one time thing even if one cannot pin point the specific moment it happened. The outcome of this new beginning will produce accompanying good works. We all must be born again. Born of the Spirit. If this occurs, we will produce good works that God recognizes and will reward.