And yet, even if God did not know ahead of time that some would choose not to serve Him, he still would have known that the likelihood of that existed, and that this would bring pain and suffering. So even in your view, God is responsible for bringing humans into the world while knowing that pain and suffering would follow. However, as you say, this is not God's fault, because they were free to choose.Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:02 pmI think when God gave man freedom to chose, it would seem to me, He knew that when choice is given a person they may chose against God's will and this leaves the door open for the pain and suffering that satan brings upon man. Satan himself I believe had a will to chose rightly but did not and was cast out of heaven. If God created beings without choice and pre-determine what they would do or even just knew what every man would do, it would seem to me to just be creating robots that really could not chose to love and have fellowship with Him.mike wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:26 pmWould you argue then that God did not know how much suffering and pain the creation of the human race would bring about, or else he might not have created it to begin with?Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:23 pm
I think my answer is in the previous post that I believe the future is partially open. I believe God will intervene some day and take control back from satan over this world. Suffering and pain came into the world by listening to satan and not God.
Jesus also after He died went to where the dead people of OT times were located and preached to them. I believe the offer of salvation will also go to those who have never heard in the NT era. How and when, I don't know, although we are currently to be involved. I prefer to believe everyone will be given a fair chance of eternal life. I guess if I was a Calvinist, I would agree that God will only save those He choses to save in this life and will cause it to happen. I favor a view that He is willing that all come to repentance and therefore God will make a way for all to chose to be saved.
When Adam and Eve first sinned they were only given one temptation to resist but satan talked them into disobeying God. When they disobeyed, sin and death entered the world. God did not bring suffering and death into the world, people did by allowing satan to guide them. We all now enter this sinful world and need to be born again and walk in the Spirit to overcome the impact of sin on us. By the sin of one man, sin and it's affects came into the world and made us all sinners. But by one man, the man Christ Jesus, by believing in Him dying for our sins, we are set free from the chains of sin and have everlasting life. 'He who the Son sets free in free indeed.'
How is this substantially different from the view you are criticizing?