Modern Day Pharisees

[Valerie]

I'm sure a Pharisee spirit can exist, but i really rarely run into it.

Rosario Butterfield in a recent radio program said too many Christians are "milk toast"

Anyway, i primarily was interested in seeing what people today see as modern-day phariseeism in the church for people in the church. I think this label is often misapplied as I study the problem that Jesus has with pharisees. I personally do not see that that's what Christians are doing who have a concern for the Lost and for truth. And I have heard enough from former gays to know they convey we need to keep conveying Truth. And I've concluded that people continue to misinterpret the discussion when they see it as pointing fingers at centers, when instead it's really the issue of realizing that in this particular sin as a Bible calls it, it's being pushed on the population to convince them it is not actually sin. We're not doing this with other sins. We're not saying that lying isn't I said anymore. We're not saying that cheating isn't a sin anymore. We're not saying that adultery isn't a sin anymore. But we are being pushed to believe that homosexuality and changing your gender is not a sin. I don't think it makes you a Pharisee to be concerned about that if you care about a person's soul.

This discussion seems futile because of misunderstandings

[temporal1]

OP:

.. Question:
Does it SEEM like to anyone else that the enemy of our souls may be using people to label Christians as Pharisees so that they will be silenced?

Anyway, if no one else is interested in contributing to this topic I will just kind of use it as a homework page.

^^o.yeah. lots of dismissing+silencing going on.
this is a great homework page! that’s a good way to think of it.

I'm sure a Pharisee spirit can exist, but i really rarely run into it.

Rosario Butterfield in a recent radio program said too many Christians are "milk toast"

Anyway, i primarily was interested in seeing what people today see as modern-day phariseeism in the church for people in the church.
I think this label is often misapplied as I study the problem that Jesus has with pharisees. I personally do not see that that's what Christians are doing who have a concern for the Lost and for truth.

And I have heard enough from former gays to know they convey we need to keep conveying Truth.

And I've concluded that people continue to misinterpret the discussion when they see it as pointing fingers at centers, when instead it's really the issue of realizing that in this particular sin as a Bible calls it, it's being pushed on the population to convince them it is not actually sin.

We're not doing this with other sins.
We're not saying that lying isn't I said anymore. We're not saying that cheating isn't a sin anymore. We're not saying that adultery isn't a sin anymore.

But we are being pushed to believe that homosexuality and changing your gender is not a sin.

I don't think it makes you a Pharisee to be concerned about that if you care about a person's soul.

This discussion seems futile because of misunderstandings.

i think you have a valid point about [organized political blocs+cults] making it their central business to not only dismiss+silence the gravity of carnal sins, but to go much further, getting into the legal system and public treasury to protect+promote carnal sin - some refer to it as the new state religion - i can’t argue. The earmarks are there, flags, banners and all. Nothing is too minor to not be stamped with the gaudy logo. Baby clothes! That’s a clue.

Not confined to domestic policies, during obama’s years, he openly stated it as his “primary foreign policy!”
The pomp+swagger involved is intentionally shocking and insulting. It’s not a “casual” clash. It’s deliberately provocative.
Nothing is too flamboyant.

God’s Truth can’t be futile.
He calls for faith at all times. He offers peace in storms. To everyone. Seriously, to everyone.
Everyone deserves to know there is A Way Out. Just as Jesus experienced, His simple Truth is just unbearable to some.

There He was - unarmed, defenseless, terrifying. Then as today.

- - - - - - -

i’m glad GaryK and others contributed. i see Falco is reading!
remember the lurkers on MD?! God bless the lurkers.

[Sudsy]

I'm sure a Pharisee spirit can exist, but i really rarely run into it.

Rosario Butterfield in a recent radio program said too many Christians are "milk toast"

Anyway, i primarily was interested in seeing what people today see as modern-day phariseeism in the church for people in the church. I think this label is often misapplied as I study the problem that Jesus has with pharisees. I personally do not see that that's what Christians are doing who have a concern for the Lost and for truth. And I have heard enough from former gays to know they convey we need to keep conveying Truth. And I've concluded that people continue to misinterpret the discussion when they see it as pointing fingers at centers, when instead it's really the issue of realizing that in this particular sin as a Bible calls it, it's being pushed on the population to convince them it is not actually sin. We're not doing this with other sins. We're not saying that lying isn't I said anymore. We're not saying that cheating isn't a sin anymore. We're not saying that adultery isn't a sin anymore. But we are being pushed to believe that homosexuality and changing your gender is not a sin. I don't think it makes you a Pharisee to be concerned about that if you care about a person's soul.

This discussion seems futile because of misunderstandings

To the underlined - I agree this is happening and causing church splits over those specific sins. If we look at what sins are listed in the NT we can easily find all kinds of sinning that is also being ignored or played down to the point that it isn't regarded as sin. To name a few, imo -

- arrogance
- bitterness
- boasting
- complaining
- divisions
- quarreling
- slander
- ungratefulness

I believe scripture is quite clear that homosexual activity is a sin and is specifically stated as such in the NT. But to ignore many other sins (some I listed) is being like the Pharisees in Jesus day, where they didn't regard themselves as sinners in the way that they were sinning. In that sense being concerned about other's sins and not our own sin (perhaps blind to our own sin) is being like the Pharisees in Jesus day.

Being concerned about sin doesn't make us a Pharisee type and we should be concerned about all kinds of sinning. The NT and the Holy Spirit is our guide to what is sin that can interfere with our fellowship with God.

What is of initial concern regarding our soul is that we have received God's free gift of salvation from the penalty of all our sins, past, present and future. These sins have been all washed away and presents us as a spotless bride of Christ. Our current sinning can interfere with our fellowship with God and if we have truly been born again we will have a continued concern with whatever gets in the way of this close fellowship. That is my understanding.

Greg Boyd has an Anabaptist church that tries to accommodate homosexuals with their own bible study group although he believes homosexual activity is a sin that should be dealt with. I read where he attended one of these studies and was very impressed at what appeared to be a genuine love for God. So, I have wondered if these folks are truly born again and are struggling with a sin that they are trying to overcome ? Or are they ignoring the scriptures about homosexual life style as they continue having these same sex urges ? And how different are they from those of us who struggle in some other area of sinning, like the one's I listed ? Are we just ignoring those sins or are we working on them with the Spirit's guidance and enabling power ?

I believe a truly born again Christian will have a concern for the soul of others and to see them live a life free from the chains of all sin. To know and experience real freedom in Christ.

Sorry, if this is not expressed well. The old brain has more limitations every day.

[Soloist]

I believe scripture is quite clear that homosexual activity is a sin and is specifically stated as such in the NT. But to ignore many other sins (some I listed) is being like the Pharisees in Jesus day, where they didn't regard themselves as sinners in the way that they were sinning. In that sense being concerned about other's sins and not our own sin (perhaps blind to our own sin) is being like the Pharisees in Jesus day.

There in lies the problem though.
I believe the Scripture says D/R is sinful and you disagree. What ground do you have to disagree with me and then tell a homosexual that living in that lifestyle is sinful who would obviously disagree with you?

[Sudsy]

I believe scripture is quite clear that homosexual activity is a sin and is specifically stated as such in the NT. But to ignore many other sins (some I listed) is being like the Pharisees in Jesus day, where they didn't regard themselves as sinners in the way that they were sinning. In that sense being concerned about other's sins and not our own sin (perhaps blind to our own sin) is being like the Pharisees in Jesus day.

There in lies the problem though.
I believe the Scripture says D/R is sinful and you disagree. What ground do you have to disagree with me and then tell a homosexual that living in that lifestyle is sinful who would obviously disagree with you?

I don't recall ever saying D/R is not a sin. But I did say that God forgives all sin and once repenting for our part in a divorce and doing our best to not contribute to it happening again, I believe we can remarry. You seem to treat it as a sin that even though repentance is made, one does not get a new start. As if that sin puts one in a position of perpetual adultery. That is where we disagree.

https://www.gty.org/library/questions/Q ... l-adultery

If a homosexual ended a relationship with the same sex and asked God to forgive them, God forgives. They are not free to begin another homosexual relationship.

Forgiveness is not giving a license to continue in the same sin.

I realize you have a big problem with us remarried believers and I am wondering if your belief is that all remarried believers are hell bound ? Will a person in what you think is 'perpetual adultery' supported by scripture that they will end up in hell ? You can believe what you chose to believe, I'm just curious as to how far you take a belief.

[RZehr]

I view it similarly as if a homosexual married person repents, but stays in his homosexual marriage.

[Soloist]

Forgiveness is not giving a license to continue in the same sin.

Completely agree

I realize you have a big problem with us remarried believers and I am wondering if your belief is that all remarried believers are hell bound ? Will a person in what you think is 'perpetual adultery' supported by scripture that they will end up in hell ? You can believe what you chose to believe, I'm just curious as to how far you take a belief.

All I can do is quote

Rom 7:2  For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3  So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

You decide and let God judge.

[Sudsy]

Forgiveness is not giving a license to continue in the same sin.

Completely agree

I realize you have a big problem with us remarried believers and I am wondering if your belief is that all remarried believers are hell bound ? Will a person in what you think is 'perpetual adultery' supported by scripture that they will end up in hell ? You can believe what you chose to believe, I'm just curious as to how far you take a belief.

All I can do is quote

Rom 7:2  For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3  So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

You decide and let God judge.

I can quote too.

1 John 1:9 - 'If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.'

You decide if 'all' means all. And yes, I agree, God is our final judge.

[Soloist]

I can quote too.

1 John 1:9 - 'If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.'

You decide if 'all' means all. And yes, I agree, God is our final judge.

Seems perfectly appropriate to quote you in response

Forgiveness is not giving a license to continue in the same sin.

[Soloist]

This just proves the point though, we can say something is sin, quote verses and then have someone else argue it doesn’t mean that and quote verses. I’m sure there is a website out there arguing that homosexuals should be allowed to marry as God didn’t intend them to be unhappy. After all they say, He made us this way.
Same argument used for divorce and remarriage basically and the same argument used for transgenderism.
The broad church on the broad road with social changes.
So which one is the pharisee?