If conservative Anabaptist was "right", why are there virtually no churches in major cities?

[Chris]

The burden is that if you look at Anabaptist churches in CA, the nation's most populated state, you will see a few. Look at Orthodox and Catholics and you'll see over a thousand. How can us Anabaptists be right when we shriek scared in the cornfields of the "world" not fulfilling the Great Commission - and to our only relief, we point to one, two, perhaps 6 churches as an exception?

It really is a burden to me. I apologize if this thread is harsh. But wow, it's real.

Chris, mass attendance is now half of what it was 50 years ago; there is nobody who seriously claims that Catholicism or Orthodoxy are on some kind of ascendant path right now (and I don't think this is a good thing, either). But comparing plain Anabaptists to the apostolic traditions should at least be a fair comparison. Attendance at Catholic services is decreasing, not increasing. Amongst Catholic evangelists one of the reasons they often cite is... Catholicism became a faith associated with ethnicity and primarily practiced in ethnic enclaves. Sound familiar?

Meanwhile, attendance and membership at plain Anabaptist churches is ever-increasing. It is much higher than it was in 1960.

Actually it's decreasing. MennoUSA is heavily decreasing, as are brethren churches.
But there are still 1.2 Billion Catholics
350 million EO

How many Anabaptists?

[Chris]

The burden is that if you look at Anabaptist churches in CA, the nation's most populated state, you will see a few. Look at Orthodox and Catholics and you'll see over a thousand. How can us Anabaptists be right when we shriek scared in the cornfields of the "world" not fulfilling the Great Commission - and to our only relief, we point to one, two, perhaps 6 churches as an exception?

It really is a burden to me. I apologize if this thread is harsh. But wow, it's real.

Chris, mass attendance is now half of what it was 50 years ago; there is nobody who seriously claims that Catholicism or Orthodoxy are on some kind of ascendant path right now (and I don't think this is a good thing, either). But comparing plain Anabaptists to the apostolic traditions should at least be a fair comparison. Attendance at Catholic services is decreasing, not increasing. Amongst Catholic evangelists one of the reasons they often cite is... Catholicism became a faith associated with ethnicity and primarily practiced in ethnic enclaves. Sound familiar?

Meanwhile, attendance and membership at plain Anabaptist churches is ever-increasing. It is much higher than it was in 1960.

The Antiochian Orthodox Church we occasionally visit is growing! And i am on an ask about the Orthodox faith Facebook group and there are a lot of people coming to Orthodox.

Do they have different last names - indicating it's not just the same families populating churches?

[Chris]

A lot of doctrinal truth, removal from the world, joy in Christ, non-resistant stance, and teachings & examples of sound marriages.

Would not removal from the world suggest living in less populated areas? Hard to remove oneself in NYC.

It's what you let in your home my friend. Yes, you can be in a high rise apartment and not be worldly.

[Ken]

The burden is that if you look at Anabaptist churches in CA, the nation's most populated state, you will see a few. Look at Orthodox and Catholics and you'll see over a thousand. How can us Anabaptists be right when we shriek scared in the cornfields of the "world" not fulfilling the Great Commission - and to our only relief, we point to one, two, perhaps 6 churches as an exception?

It really is a burden to me. I apologize if this thread is harsh. But wow, it's real.

Chris, mass attendance is now half of what it was 50 years ago; there is nobody who seriously claims that Catholicism or Orthodoxy are on some kind of ascendant path right now (and I don't think this is a good thing, either). But comparing plain Anabaptists to the apostolic traditions should at least be a fair comparison. Attendance at Catholic services is decreasing, not increasing. Amongst Catholic evangelists one of the reasons they often cite is... Catholicism became a faith associated with ethnicity and primarily practiced in ethnic enclaves. Sound familiar?

Meanwhile, attendance and membership at plain Anabaptist churches is ever-increasing. It is much higher than it was in 1960.

Actually it's decreasing. MennoUSA is heavily decreasing, as are brethren churches.
But there are still 1.2 Billion Catholics
350 million EO

How many Anabaptists?

It is the Pentecostals who are growing faster than any other group by far and are now estimated to have about 650 million members representing 26% of all Christians worldwide. https://www.gordonconwell.edu/center-fo ... costalism/

They aren't afraid of cities.

Anabaptists despite being a denomination that is about 400 years older than Pentecostals are barely rounding error by comparison.

[ohio jones]

Meanwhile, attendance and membership at plain Anabaptist churches is ever-increasing. It is much higher than it was in 1960.

Actually it's decreasing. MennoUSA is heavily decreasing, as are brethren churches.
But there are still 1.2 Billion Catholics
350 million EO

How many Anabaptists?

MC USA isn't exactly plain. Growth in the plain groups more than offsets the decreases in that denomination.

Current stats from MWC indicate 2.13 million Anabaptists globally, up from 1.77 million ten years ago, 1.30 million twenty years ago, and 0.39 million in 1958 (closest data point to 1960).

The EO number looks a little high; I've seen estimates from 200 million to 300 million, with most reports in the 220-260 million range.

[Valerie]

Chris, mass attendance is now half of what it was 50 years ago; there is nobody who seriously claims that Catholicism or Orthodoxy are on some kind of ascendant path right now (and I don't think this is a good thing, either). But comparing plain Anabaptists to the apostolic traditions should at least be a fair comparison. Attendance at Catholic services is decreasing, not increasing. Amongst Catholic evangelists one of the reasons they often cite is... Catholicism became a faith associated with ethnicity and primarily practiced in ethnic enclaves. Sound familiar?

Meanwhile, attendance and membership at plain Anabaptist churches is ever-increasing. It is much higher than it was in 1960.

The Antiochian Orthodox Church we occasionally visit is growing! And i am on an ask about the Orthodox faith Facebook group and there are a lot of people coming to Orthodox.

Do they have different last names - indicating it's not just the same families populating churches?

Yes, it's not so much an ethnic growth.

[Valerie]

I'm recalling the early days of our seeking Anabaptists. There was a seemingly strong position that the Anabaptist people from various sects under this umbrella, was considered the "Remnant" church, therefore the lack of growing large numbers wasn't the focus.

Is that an accurate understanding we arrived at?
Monks/hermits left the populated world so to speak to be the prayer warriors that was needed for the Church and they needed to avoid the distractions of "the world" to do so. These did not have children to be concerned about. When Anabaptists arrived in North America, they had a chance to be free from persecution they came from and had to varve out a living. Farming seemed predominantly the means for survival.

There was a woman i met about 16 years ago who came from Amish. Her family became Mennonite, but her and her husband left Mennonite and became what she called Full Gospel" - when i began to cover my head, I could feel her distancing herself from me. She had conveyed how she hated wearing the Mennonite type covering feeling so odd in public high school. I think my change to cover, reminded her of the bondage she felt to outward regulations.

It seems the Anabaptists in a way, prefer to be salt and light as a witness rather than going to cities to proselytize- it is a different world than the early church faced. Lot had to remove his family- to save his family

[Chris]

Meanwhile, attendance and membership at plain Anabaptist churches is ever-increasing. It is much higher than it was in 1960.

Actually it's decreasing. MennoUSA is heavily decreasing, as are brethren churches.
But there are still 1.2 Billion Catholics
350 million EO

How many Anabaptists?

MC USA isn't exactly plain. Growth in the plain groups more than offsets the decreases in that denomination.

Current stats from MWC indicate 2.13 million Anabaptists globally, up from 1.77 million ten years ago, 1.30 million twenty years ago, and 0.39 million in 1958 (closest data point to 1960).

The EO number looks a little high; I've seen estimates from 200 million to 300 million, with most reports in the 220-260 million range.

If you include Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox (both with very heavy city presence, there is well over 450 million). EO is estimated around 330 million. My source is their church itself. 220-260 is way low.

[Josh]

Oriental, Church of the East, Armenian and Eastern Orthodox aren’t in communion with each other. (Some specific groups inside these churches will commune with other specific groups.)

Actual mass attendance is not very high, much like other churches that practice infant baptism. The membership is far higher than the average weekly attendance. In America Orthodox attendance on average per week is 26% of the membership.

[Ken]

Meanwhile, attendance and membership at plain Anabaptist churches is ever-increasing. It is much higher than it was in 1960.

Actually it's decreasing. MennoUSA is heavily decreasing, as are brethren churches.
But there are still 1.2 Billion Catholics
350 million EO

How many Anabaptists?

MC USA isn't exactly plain. Growth in the plain groups more than offsets the decreases in that denomination.

Current stats from MWC indicate 2.13 million Anabaptists globally, up from 1.77 million ten years ago, 1.30 million twenty years ago, and 0.39 million in 1958 (closest data point to 1960).

The EO number looks a little high; I've seen estimates from 200 million to 300 million, with most reports in the 220-260 million range.

Both EO and Catholic numbers are probably suspect (or not comparable to Protestant numbers) because in many cultures and places they just default you into the church rolls and numbers if you were from there and born into the church, even if you never attend and haven't for decades.

So, for example, they come up with a number of 425 million Catholics for Latin America. Which is basically just the total population of Latin America minus the numbers of other churches like Pentecostal, Baptists, Mormons, and other evangelicals.