Bethel Church

General Christian Theology
joshuabgood
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Re: Neo-evangelical Anabaptists

Post by joshuabgood »

Ernie wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:41 pm How many Neo-Evangelical Anabaptists believe this stuff that is coming from Bill Johnson/Bethel, that I mentioned?
I don't think any of those folks do...if by those you mean, Greg Boyd, Scott McKnight, Brian Zahnd, Hauerwas, etc...

However, there is a portion of CA's that are very sympathetic. I know of at least two that were in leadership that went to supernatural school...though they have since left the CA world and are more in the Lapp bro's Glory Barn circle.
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barnhart
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Re: Neo-evangelical Anabaptists

Post by barnhart »

joshuabgood wrote: ↑Tue Jun 10, 2025 10:11 am ...I know of at least two that were in leadership that went to supernatural school...though they have since left the CA world and are more in the Lapp bro's Glory Barn circle.
The Bethel school?
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Ken
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Re: Neo-evangelical Anabaptists

Post by Ken »

JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:10 pm
Jazman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 1:14 pm
JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 12:25 pm I have no problem with people agreeing in prayer to pray for miracles.

I don’t agree with seeking relics from deceased saints but most Christendom is fine with this.
I too am struggling to understand why you would defend Bill Johnson or anybody in that orbit... (But this is a bit off-topic... Someone's welcome to spin this off somewhere else... it's something that kind of hits a button of mine and I don't want to fill this thread up with stuff... but man could I go on a many postings, many links rant...)
I’ve simply seen a great deal of good fruit come out of Bethel and have encountered faithful believers there. They have a heavy focus on evangelism, good works to the needy, and have a very positive impact on their local community. They put we Anabaptists to shame in some of these areas.
I find it hilarious that you are eager to hand-wave away an extraordinary volume of ridiculous un-Biblical behavior, grifting, and outright fraud from Bethel. Apparently because they are a “conservative” church that you agree with.

But on the other thread if a more “liberal” Menno church dares ordain a woman pastor or a gay one to teach ordinary Menno theology you find that beyond the pale.
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joshuabgood
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Re: Neo-evangelical Anabaptists

Post by joshuabgood »

barnhart wrote: ↑Tue Jun 10, 2025 10:17 am
joshuabgood wrote: ↑Tue Jun 10, 2025 10:11 am ...I know of at least two that were in leadership that went to supernatural school...though they have since left the CA world and are more in the Lapp bro's Glory Barn circle.
The Bethel school?
I am not one hundred percent sure but I know there was extended attendance at a school of supernatural ministry/prophecy etc...and I know they spoke favorably of "going to places where folks had died" to pick up "their mantle" and "annointing" from their graves/places of death. Their twist on it was also they wanted to go to the Switzerland to get the mantle of the spirit from Manz et al. They were in a somewhat fringie-ish CA church, though a CA church. They eventually went too far for that church and they left/were "pushed out."

But that sort of Bethel influence is definitely present in some CA circles.
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JohnH
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Re: Neo-evangelical Anabaptists

Post by JohnH »

Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jun 10, 2025 11:29 am
JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:10 pm
Jazman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 1:14 pm
I too am struggling to understand why you would defend Bill Johnson or anybody in that orbit... (But this is a bit off-topic... Someone's welcome to spin this off somewhere else... it's something that kind of hits a button of mine and I don't want to fill this thread up with stuff... but man could I go on a many postings, many links rant...)
I’ve simply seen a great deal of good fruit come out of Bethel and have encountered faithful believers there. They have a heavy focus on evangelism, good works to the needy, and have a very positive impact on their local community. They put we Anabaptists to shame in some of these areas.
I find it hilarious that you are eager to hand-wave away an extraordinary volume of ridiculous un-Biblical behavior, grifting, and outright fraud from Bethel. Apparently because they are a “conservative” church that you agree with.

But on the other thread if a more “liberal” Menno church dares ordain a woman pastor or a gay one to teach ordinary Menno theology you find that beyond the pale.
Things I disagree with them on are prosperity gospel, excessive political involvement, lack of non resistant teachings and lack of respect for things like biblical modesty and head covering.

If a liberal Mennonite church encouraged people to pray and believe for healing I would not object to that.

I have also been very blessed to see Bethel’s effect on their local community. The same I am blessed by the Catholics in Steubenville.
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Ken
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Re: Neo-evangelical Anabaptists

Post by Ken »

JohnH wrote: ↑Tue Jun 10, 2025 12:11 pm
Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jun 10, 2025 11:29 am
JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:10 pm

I’ve simply seen a great deal of good fruit come out of Bethel and have encountered faithful believers there. They have a heavy focus on evangelism, good works to the needy, and have a very positive impact on their local community. They put we Anabaptists to shame in some of these areas.
I find it hilarious that you are eager to hand-wave away an extraordinary volume of ridiculous un-Biblical behavior, grifting, and outright fraud from Bethel. Apparently because they are a “conservative” church that you agree with.

But on the other thread if a more “liberal” Menno church dares ordain a woman pastor or a gay one to teach ordinary Menno theology you find that beyond the pale.
Things I disagree with them on are prosperity gospel, excessive political involvement, lack of non resistant teachings and lack of respect for things like biblical modesty and head covering.

If a liberal Mennonite church encouraged people to pray and believe for healing I would not object to that.

I have also been very blessed to see Bethel’s effect on their local community. The same I am blessed by the Catholics in Steubenville.
Well, one effect Bethel had on their local community was that they did manage to turn Shasta County into the county with the highest COVID infection and death rates in the entire state of California. A rate that was 6-times higher than the CA statewide average So there’s that. Maybe they just needed more people to practice their faith healing and raising from the dead. Which apparently didn’t work on a real disease.
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JohnH
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Re: Neo-evangelical Anabaptists

Post by JohnH »

Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jun 10, 2025 12:28 pm Well, one effect Bethel had on their local community was that they did manage to turn Shasta County into the county with the highest COVID infection and death rates in the entire state of California. A rate that was 6-times higher than the CA statewide average So there’s that. Maybe they just needed more people to practice their faith healing and raising from the dead. Which apparently didn’t work on a real disease.
I spent time up there in June 2020. Things were fine.

Bethel was not holding in person services - virtual only, so I’d love to hear your explanation of how they were responsible for that.
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Ken
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Bethel Church

Post by Ken »

Here you go. This is just one piece. There was LOTS more local and state coverage about how local health officials were concerned that Bethel Church was undermining efforts to control the pandemic. And how it was no coincidence that Bethel Church was at the epicenter of the worst COVID outbreaks in the state of California: https://shastascout.org/bethel-churchs- ... the-beast/


Bethel Church’s Bill Johnson Compares COVID Vaccines to “Mark of the Beast”

Bethel Church, a Redding megachurch that claims to perform miraculous healings, has been the center of controversy over statements and actions related to COVID. Neither Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry nor Bethel Christian School require masks for students.
BY ANNELISE PIERCE ● NEWS ● OCTOBER 15, 2021

Bill Johnson, the Senior Leader of Bethel Church, a Redding megachurch with approximately 10,000 local attendees, used a recent Sunday morning message to compare the COVID vaccine to the “mark of the beast.”

Shasta County, where Bethel is located, has had it’s biggest surge in COVID cases over recent months. While that surge is now declining, between August 30 and September 29, 63 people died of COVID in Shasta County, more than four times the state-wide rate. Data indicates that FDA-approved COVID vaccines significantly reduce virus transmission, hospitalizations, and deaths. While those who have been vaccinated for COVID can become ill with the virus, they are far less likely to die or be hospitalized from it, than those without.

Johnson’s words about the vaccines were part of a brief series of personal political statements that were shared live and streamed to Bethel TV’s half a million users, in August. The sermon is also available on Bethel’s podcast, which has 20 million downloads a year and is available in ten languages.

Speaking extemporaneously in remarks related to his message about courage, Johnson told his local and online audience, “With the mark of the beast you can’t buy or sell or do business. And without a vaccine, they want you to not be able to buy or sell or do business.”

“Now I’m not opposing vaccines,” Johnson continued, “I’m just saying this is an interesting dress rehearsal for a bigger issue in the future. We’ve got to be careful what we buy into. Some of the things you buy into today will cost you tomorrow.”

“The mark of the beast” is a Biblical reference to an allegiance with extreme evil. In the end times, Revelation 13 reads, people will be required to wear a name, mark, or number (666), known as the mark of the beast, and signifying their association with evil in order to conduct business. Connections between “the mark of the beast” and COVID vaccines are sometimes found alongside a belief in Q-anon conspiracy theories. Danny Silk, another of Bethel’s Senior Leaders, has promoted Q-anon conspiracy theories on his social media pages.

While major religious traditions and groups, including Christianity, are largely united in their support of COVID vaccines, leaders of Bethel Church have been criticized for failing to follow COVID precautions.

Last year, Johnson’s wife, Beni Johnson, shared a video where she referred to masks as “worthless” and “security blankets.” After that incident went viral, Bethel’s Assistant Senior Leader Kris Vallotton distanced the church from Beni’s statements, saying “masks are the law, and also we personally believe it’s more than the law it’s about love.” But shortly thereafter Vallotton held a family wedding with more than 100 participants, drawing a rebuke from Shasta County Supervisors.

In the last week, Bill and Beni Johnson and other Bethel leaders have also used their personal social media accounts to promote local school walkouts in response to COVID vaccine mandates for teachers and students. A letter by a local teacher, who refuses both COVID testing and the COVID vaccine, was shared by Bill Johnson on his personal Instagram with the caption: “We must oppose government overreach, regardless of your stance on the vax.” Johnson’s post has over 12,000 likes.

Bethel’s stance on COVID has concerned local leaders, in part because Bethel is one of the largest employers in Shasta County. The church is also closely connected with Sean Feucht, a political activist and worship leader who has held “Let Us Worship” events across the United States in defiance of COVID restrictions.

Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry

Bethel Church also runs a number of schools, including Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry (BSSM), a program that enrolls thousands of students in multiple years of schooling. Last October, BSSM was the center of a Redding COVID outbreak involving more than 300 students.

This year, Bethel Communications confirmed that a July 15 BSSM COVID policy update is still current. That policy does not specifically address masks or vaccines but says that students moving from outside the area to attend Bethel schools will not be asked to quarantine or test prior to beginning BSSM. Students started their school year in late August and early September.

. . .
The article goes on to talk about how the K12 private schools run by Bethel were out of compliance and defiantly opposed to state COVID recommendations as well.

So it isn’t surprising that they managed to generate the worst COVID infection and death rates in the entire state by far. Nice positive impact they had on their local community. Rather than healing the sick and raising people from the dead. They were actually getting people sick and killing them.
Last edited by Ken on Tue Jun 10, 2025 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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R7ehr
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Re: Neo-evangelical Anabaptists

Post by R7ehr »

Data showing that Shasta County had the worst Covid figures in California?
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Ken
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Re: Neo-evangelical Anabaptists

Post by Ken »

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