Re: Poll: Faith Traditions that Profess Christianity
Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:20 am
The poll is for individuals who visit MN. The poll is not, "What does your church stand for? or "Where does your church fit?"
Where Mennonites and others connect
https://forum.mennonet.com/
If "Mainstream Anabaptist" communicates better, you could insert that instead of "Mainline Anabaptist".Neto wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:41 amAlso, some terms have been used in a sense different from common usage, such as "Mainline". In the way this term is normally used (or at least in the past - maybe I have not kept up with changes), it refers only to the old Protestant denominations, which in my somewhat more fuzzy understanding would require the practice of infant baptism, and possibly also more-than-symbolic views of the bread & the wine in communion.
I'm interested in hearing why you think Dutch Mennonites don't fit. When I created the poll options, I assumed that they would apply to Dutch Mennonites as well.
I'm not entirely sure I'd agree with zweibach as a symbol either. Holdemans are largely a Russian Mennonite group in background, although they accepted Swiss Brethren, Lutherans, and a variety of other people as well. Yet zweibach is extinct (my in laws don't know what it is or care about it), at least in the U.S.; perhaps some people in Canada know what it is. On the flip side, everyone in my congregation gets excited about making pepper nuts (Pfeffernusse) at Christmastime - even the Swiss background people. In other circles I've never seen pepper nuts at all.Neto wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:41 am I have not responded to the poll, because the classifications follow only the Swiss Brethren tradition, excluding Dutch Mennonites altogether, all the way back to Menno Simons. I would also suggest that it is actually following a later preoccupation in Swiss Brethren circles with the use of "outward appearances". (Like a specific style of dress, for both male & female. But I am not referring to things like the veiling.) I am not criticizing this approach, and nor is this an appeal to change anyone's standards for practice, just saying that people of my heritage do not fit anywhere here. (I'm reminded of the time, way back when I first got to know non-Dutch Mennonites for the first time, a discussion of what would be a good symbol of "Mennonite culture". I mentioned the zwiebach as a symbol of the survival of our people, and the Deitsch people looked at me with blank looks - they didn't even know what I was talking about. I did not realize that this bread is only made in the Plautdietsch culture, not at all in the PA Deitsch culture.)
It is a novel term I think Ernie invented (or maybe I did), but I like it too. We can identify people in Mennonite churches that are basically identical to the mainline Protestant Methodist church down the street. We should call these people Anabaptists (Mainline). Likewise, we can identify ones that are progressive, just like the progressive Methodist church across town. We should call them Anabaptists (Progressive-Liberal). And then we can identify Mennonite churches that seem very much like an evangelical church. We should call them Anabaptists (Evangelical).Also, some terms have been used in a sense different from common usage, such as "Mainline". In the way this term is normally used (or at least in the past - maybe I have not kept up with changes), it refers only to the old Protestant denominations, which in my somewhat more fuzzy understanding would require the practice of infant baptism, and possibly also more-than-symbolic views of the bread & the wine in communion.
As a slight point, mainline Protestants consist of both infant baptisers and believers' baptisers; specifically, the American Baptist Churches are considered mainline Protestant, but also are (obviously) Baptists. Views on transubstantiation or the real presence would vary as well, Baptists would have a memorial view; Lutherans would have Luther's view, Presbyterians hold to a memorial view, whereas Anglicans would have a real presence sort of view (although they are of two different minds of a "pneumatic presence" or a "corporal presence"). I'm not sure what the Methodist view is.Ernie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:23 amIf "Mainstream Anabaptist" communicates better, you could insert that instead of "Mainline Anabaptist".Neto wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:41 amAlso, some terms have been used in a sense different from common usage, such as "Mainline". In the way this term is normally used (or at least in the past - maybe I have not kept up with changes), it refers only to the old Protestant denominations, which in my somewhat more fuzzy understanding would require the practice of infant baptism, and possibly also more-than-symbolic views of the bread & the wine in communion.
What is the difference between these two? I see them as the same thing.Josh wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:30 am Anabaptist (Evangelical) - yes, some U.S. MBs are essentially evangelical in orientation (particularly the "mega church" style ones)
Anabaptist (non-Plain Theological Conservative) - I don't actually know of any Russian Mennonite background groups that align neatly with the philosophy that prevails in Rosedale / CMC. I am reasonably certain it would exist though, probably amongst U.S. MB background people.
Evangelicals would ordain women but perhaps in a "restrained" way (perhaps not to lead pastor, for example).Ernie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:34 amWhat is the difference between these two? I see them as the same thing.Josh wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:30 am Anabaptist (Evangelical) - yes, some U.S. MBs are essentially evangelical in orientation (particularly the "mega church" style ones)
Anabaptist (non-Plain Theological Conservative) - I don't actually know of any Russian Mennonite background groups that align neatly with the philosophy that prevails in Rosedale / CMC. I am reasonably certain it would exist though, probably amongst U.S. MB background people.
I didn't know it was novel.Josh wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:30 am It is a novel term I think Ernie invented (or maybe I did), but I like it too. We can identify people in Mennonite churches that are basically identical to the mainline Protestant Methodist church down the street. We should call these people Anabaptists (Mainline).
Then we need to say Anabaptist (Conservative Evangelical) because many Evangelicals support women as lead pastors.
I do not want to create a diversion in this thread, nor do i wish to start another discussion about the Matthew passage in respect to divorce and remarriage, but that passage is understood by Menno Simons as allowing remarriage in the case of persistent and unrepentant adultery. (Whereas the Swiss Brethren position, at least as it has been "back-described" - meaning I have not seen any writings from the early period that speak to this question, only current era statements that it was such-and-so - do not make any such concession or provision.)