The real reason SBC lost members.

[nett]

No...I don't think I will.

Yeah I didn't expect you to actually back up such an absurd statement.

[nett]

https://apnews.com/article/baptist-reli ... 4c3dae3fd5

Beyond sad. What is done in the dark will be brought to light...as the song says...God's gonna cut you down.

Johnny Hunt used to preach at Liberty quite often, when I was there, against the evils of "drinking a beer" or "dancing." Clearly the "conservative resurgence" when it came actual institutional integrity and holiness was sadly lacking.

Russell took it on the chin when he confronted the SBC exec team about what he knew about these cover ups but the reality was even worse. Russell was accused of being a liberal, attacked publicly, and threatened for standing up to this.

It makes SBC larger culture wars ring hollow.

Do you have any evidences that this is the "real reason" for the exodus? I didn't see anything in the article about polling or surveys. And most members wouldn't have been broadly aware of the systemic issue with the lack of action in cases of abuse.

[Josh]

With all due respect, clergy sexual abuse is more damaging to the church and to Jesus than woke pastors.

Is it? The Bible teaches that false teachers are a grave abomination, and indeed the Bible also teaches that we can often identify false teachers because they engage in gross immorality as well.

"Woke" pastors and pastors who abuse go hand-in-hand. They are, indeed, one and the same thing, as the Mennonite world learned with JHY. It is quite telling, josh, how eager you seem to excuse "woke" pastors and indeed seem eager to excuse a complete slide into liberalism, but fail to see how a slide into liberalism will end up condoning and promoting the very sexual abuse you pretend to be eager to root out.

[Sliceitup]

With all due respect, clergy sexual abuse is more damaging to the church and to Jesus than woke pastors.

Is it? The Bible teaches that false teachers are a grave abomination, and indeed the Bible also teaches that we can often identify false teachers because they engage in gross immorality as well.

"Woke" pastors and pastors who abuse go hand-in-hand. They are, indeed, one and the same thing, as the Mennonite world learned with JHY. It is quite telling, josh, how eager you seem to excuse "woke" pastors and indeed seem eager to excuse a complete slide into liberalism, but fail to see how a slide into liberalism will end up condoning and promoting the very sexual abuse you pretend to be eager to root out.

I think by now we should be able to confidently say that any ‘slide into liberalism’ has little bearing on whether people condone promote child abuse. If this was something that happened on the coattails of liberal sliding games, then it wouldn’t be so frequent in the old order churches, at CAM, and all other places where deliberate attempts are made to stay away from liberal water slides.

[Josh]

I think by now we should be able to confidently say that any ‘slide into liberalism’ has little bearing on whether people condone promote child abuse. If this was something that happened on the coattails of liberal sliding games, then it wouldn’t be so frequent in the old order churches, at CAM, and all other places where deliberate attempts are made to stay away from liberal water slides.

Abuse has also been quite frequent along with subsequent coverups in liberal Mennonite circles, JHY being a notorious example.

Which is why I eye anyone with suspicion who acts like liberalism is the answer. It isn't. It just makes everything worse. I do not need liberals to tell me that sexual abuse is bad, particularly when they are busy doing everything they can to dramatically increase the amount of sexual abuse and other abuse there is in the world.

[justme]

1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!

2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

[Ken]

https://apnews.com/article/baptist-reli ... 4c3dae3fd5

Beyond sad. What is done in the dark will be brought to light...as the song says...God's gonna cut you down.

Johnny Hunt used to preach at Liberty quite often, when I was there, against the evils of "drinking a beer" or "dancing." Clearly the "conservative resurgence" when it came actual institutional integrity and holiness was sadly lacking.

Russell took it on the chin when he confronted the SBC exec team about what he knew about these cover ups but the reality was even worse. Russell was accused of being a liberal, attacked publicly, and threatened for standing up to this.

It makes SBC larger culture wars ring hollow.

Do you have any evidences that this is the "real reason" for the exodus? I didn't see anything in the article about polling or surveys. And most members wouldn't have been broadly aware of the systemic issue with the lack of action in cases of abuse.

If you look at the numbers the SBC church is losing younger generations, nonwhite members, and urban populations the fastest and retaining older, white, rural populations the most.

So I seriously doubt the reason for the SBC exodus is that they are not conservative enough. Or specifically because they are too open to women in leadership and not prejudiced enough against gays as Josh suggests.

[Josh]

If you look at the numbers the SBC church is losing younger generations, nonwhite members, and urban populations the fastest and retaining older, white, rural populations the most.

So I seriously doubt the reason for the SBC exodus is that they are not conservative enough. Or specifically because they are too open to women in leadership and not prejudiced enough against gays as Josh suggests.

A rather obvious place to look at is what is happening in broader christendom, and that is that liberal, progressive denominations are nearly extinct. Denominations that are growing are ones that are quite conservative in both doctrine and practice. An obvious example are Oneness Pentecostals, who continue to experience large amounts of growth, and are diverse across urban, rural, white, non-white, Hispanic, non-Hispanic, and are composed of both young and old people.

[Josh]

1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!

2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

... which is why "woke pastors" are something I am quite opposed to, considering what they think is OK to do to children.

[Ken]

If you look at the numbers the SBC church is losing younger generations, nonwhite members, and urban populations the fastest and retaining older, white, rural populations the most.

So I seriously doubt the reason for the SBC exodus is that they are not conservative enough. Or specifically because they are too open to women in leadership and not prejudiced enough against gays as Josh suggests.

A rather obvious place to look at is what is happening in broader christendom, and that is that liberal, progressive denominations are nearly extinct. Denominations that are growing are ones that are quite conservative in both doctrine and practice. An obvious example are Oneness Pentecostals, who continue to experience large amounts of growth, and are diverse across urban, rural, white, non-white, Hispanic, non-Hispanic, and are composed of both young and old people.

Shrug...

If you look into the actual subject at hand, you will find that the SBC is bleeding members most heavily in exactly the demographics that I described. Younger people, urban people, and non-white people. And the demographics where they are maintaining their numbers are older, whiter, and rural people. A quick bit of digging into the data will show this to be true.

Interesting that you bring up Pentecostals since Pentecostals have never excluded women from the ministry like Baptists. Even going back to the origins of the faith in the Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles. Women have always been free to preach and lead. Here is a historical photo of the original leaders and founders of the Pentecostal faith