Church of God (Restoration)

[Josh]

Interesting group. My wife notes that they seem to prefer a more uniform clothing style. Not much variation in colors or patterns. God’s workers in the harvest come in many different cultural expressions. I pray they remain faithful to God foremost and avoid the cult temptations.

Considering they believe both you and I will go to hell because we aren’t part of their One True Church, I would venture that they have already succumbed to the cult temptations.

[Valerie]

Interesting group. My wife notes that they seem to prefer a more uniform clothing style. Not much variation in colors or patterns. God’s workers in the harvest come in many different cultural expressions. I pray they remain faithful to God foremost and avoid the cult temptations.

Considering they believe both you and I will go to hell because we aren’t part of their One True Church, I would venture that they have already succumbed to the cult temptations.

They believe that, really?

[Sudsy]

Yes but when you have 2000 years of church Age- & only in the last 100 years plus did people reinterpret- we CAN look to verifiable church history on both of these issues (women Pastors & headcovering) & know that it's the days preceding Christ's return that the falling away of the faith once delivered to the saints will be marked by the "changing" interpretation. The Church that started at the time of the Apostles, does not move away from this. Instruments aren't spoken against in New Testament. But veiling is both OT & NT & taught for 2000 years. Same with female pastors. Jesus wasn't waiting for 20th & 21st century Christians to "arrive" & straighten out the Church. Remember the last days is when the elect, if possible can be deceived

Yes, we should always be thinking about whether changes are a 'falling away of the faith once delivered to the saints'. Myself, I leave room for church history to have continued certain traditions from the OC that seem to be not anything that was worth changing at the time Paul was writing his letters. The changes that did need to be made having to do with a saving faith, Paul addressed (i.e. circumcision and a works salvation). Most Christians believe the more recent (last couple of centuries) changes to stop slavery was a good move but Jesus and church tradition for hundreds of years did not make this change. Actually guidance was given in scripture on how one is to live in that slave system. Surely we don't want to go back to NT practise on this to stay biblical.

I don't think everything having to do with women being treated more like men is all bad. It is interesting that the 21 page link that was given was not by a Church of God rep. but rather Catherine Booth, who with her husband began the Salvation Army. The SA have given women equal rights with men in every office of the church and have been used mightly by God. I do have a similar view of WIM of the one expressed also in this link by a COG pastor.

And speaking of 'the faith once delivered to the saints' I don't read the ECT (eternal conscious torment) in hell fire also that got started early on by some. This was not how the Gospel was taught as we read it in the NT. So, how did this doctrine get created and passed on for some 2,000 years and yet it was not preached by the apostles ? Could it be that God is not really going to assign the vast majority of billions of people to this fate when there is so many verses that speak otherwise ? Is it now a develish doctrine to believe in conditional immortality ? Well, for me, I'm not going to settle for church history to be an unquestionable grounds for truth.

With that said, I do believe there are lying spirits at work probably greater than ever before. I appreciate your warnings regarding change. We live in a world of rapid change so we need to keep checking these back against scripture. I doubt any of us will get it all figured out but we can know enough for us to receive the gift of eternal life.

[Dan Z]

Interesting group. My wife notes that they seem to prefer a more uniform clothing style. Not much variation in colors or patterns. God’s workers in the harvest come in many different cultural expressions. I pray they remain faithful to God foremost and avoid the cult temptations.

Considering they believe both you and I will go to hell because we aren’t part of their One True Church, I would venture that they have already succumbed to the cult temptations.

They believe that, really?

They believe that there are possibly scattered remnant folks who have not yet found their way to the true Church of God

[QuietObserver]

Above is a a link to an open forum where ex-members and community people could come to the church to ask questions. The questions were moderated by a man who was part of the church but became an atheist and left the church several years prior.

A few takeaways...
1. Their Apostles could write Scripture, but so far haven't exercised that privilege.
2. Their apostle basically said he has the power to damn or save.
3. The Apostle didn't want to discuss any doctrine at this meeting. The little bit of doctrine that was discussed I think shows why he didn't want to discuss doctrine.

[QuietObserver]

Considering they believe both you and I will go to hell because we aren’t part of their One True Church, I would venture that they have already succumbed to the cult temptations.

They believe that, really?

They believe that there are possibly scattered remnant folks who have not yet found their way to the true Church of God

Hmm...that sounds familiar, wonder where I've heard that before. Josh, it seems you're the wrong person to criticize COGR for being OTC. Just sayin..

[Josh]

They believe that, really?

They believe that there are possibly scattered remnant folks who have not yet found their way to the true Church of God

Hmm...that sounds familiar, wonder where I've heard that before. Josh, it seems you're the wrong person to criticize COGR for being OTC. Just sayin..

Holdemans don’t believe that you have to join our church to be a Christian or to be saved, because we don’t think church membership is a requirement for salvation. (I hope nobody else here does either.)

The CoG(R) teaches that salvation is only open to people who are part of their church, and that anyone who is currently saved will somehow eventually join their church. They also connect this to the 144,000 in Revelation.

[Sudsy]

They believe that there are possibly scattered remnant folks who have not yet found their way to the true Church of God

Hmm...that sounds familiar, wonder where I've heard that before. Josh, it seems you're the wrong person to criticize COGR for being OTC. Just sayin..

Holdemans don’t believe that you have to join our church to be a Christian or to be saved, because we don’t think church membership is a requirement for salvation. (I hope nobody else here does either.)

The CoG(R) teaches that salvation is only open to people who are part of their church, and that anyone who is currently saved will somehow eventually join their church. They also connect this to the 144,000 in Revelation.

I took the time to watch this last video and wish I could have asked some questions. I do think it quite a method of addressing some of their critics but I also think this was probably a way of evangelizing in their minds. I could be wrong.

Regarding who is saved outside of their church, a response was given regarding 'those who have never heard the Gospel' and the answer was that they will leave that up to God. It appears that one certainly will not be saved if they join their group and later leave it. Seems to me I heard this also of the Holdemans but Josh could probably correct me on this ?

I, for one, not only believe formal 'church membership' in how we have created it is not a requirement for salvation but it is also beyond what scripture says about gathering together as believers. This group is 'anti-denominational' (which I also have reservations about, that is denominations) but I am glad to partner with other Christians in good deeds in the local community.

Anyway, listening to the responses, I don't think I will go through with a visit to their nearby church. Any group that forces uniformity as a major means of obtaining unity in a group is not how I believe the early church operated. God does not make identical robots when He saves us.

[PaulD]

For the last 7 years of my life I have mostly been in anapaptist circles, but I spent the first 22 years of my life raised exclusively in the Church of God broader movement, about a decade of that was in the Restoration.
Also learned a lot through reading the old 1890's CoGWarner books growing up, since my Dad was sort of a CoG history student.
In my earliest memories my Dad was a minister in a Church of God Winebrenner church, and his mother was the women's sunday school in that church and previously in the CoG Anderson church that Dad grew up in. Dad's grandma and mother also associated with the Church of God Evening Light people and went to their campmeetings all their life.
Mom's people were in the Church of God Evening Light, as well as the Gibson Group, back into the 1890's.
So our history is CoG.
I was blessed to have several of my relatives live long enough to impact my life. My Great Grandparents being the most significant impact since they lived up into my mid 20s and they were close friends of ours.. They spent half of their life in the Gibson Group, which was the strictest cog group I know of before the Restoration, in some ways stricter for instance they did not even allow going to the dentist, no medical whatsoever.
The last 40 years of their life they spent between the CoG Evening Light and the Restoration in it's early stages 1983-1993 having been close friends and supporters of it's founders in it's beginning stages..
But anyway, thats what it is.
So the main reason my family joined the Restoration around 1991 was because of my Great Grandparents being there. But also my Dad had already previously knew Mr Layne through other sources before marriage and also Dad was very dissatisfied with things that the majority of his winebrenner church were accepting, for instance him, his mother, and two of his siblings were the last two people in their church to be against remarriage and at that time there was a push for appointing a remarried man into the sundayschool leader position.
But long story short, we were in the restoration through the 1990s and left when I was 14, after years of horriffic happenings that were swept under the rug, and by default went to where my great grandparents had switched back to which was CoG Evening Light.
But I just really feel for people who have left better places like to get stuck in this COGR. Yes, for some people it looks good on the surface, their presentation is mostly nice, but it's sort of like a rat trap with cheese on it. Nice people are in there. But you can hardly leave that group in tact as a family and in your right mind.
There are elements of brainwashing that are hard to overcome. When a couple decides to leave they will loose children to the group who will partially or totally shun them. Or if one spouse leaves there are many cases of the ministry instigating divorces. I'm not saying the one leaving isn't sometimes partly or totally at fault for the divorse. But I know of cases that are very bad. And I also know that this ministry has been very good at telling half-truths, to make things appear different than what the facts are in order to maintain their "pure spotless" presentation of themselves as the one true church.
But that is only part of the issues here.
Their unreasonable interpretations of things like Eschatology and calling themselves the 7th Angel ministry and ignoring Ante Nicene church history on the headcovering but using said history when it supports their teachings on other dress issues and many otger things are reasons to be wary of this sect. Not to mention that their ministry is now lifted so high that you have to go through them to "get saved" and if you reject their lordship you are lost.. I feel for them. But I am so thankful to not be blinded by their smooth tactics. Poor people..
Here is an article by another person who is of CoG background and was involved in the early years of this COGR group, that addresses some of their claimes. Only thing keep in mind that this writing is about 15 years out of date and the COGR has became much bolder in their claims of prophetic importance than he addresses. I share this to warn possible converts to beware..
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source ... 8cAN0XCqj

[Josh]

As I understand it, Church of God Evening Light has a good reputation and doesn’t show cult like tendencies.