Prayers for the Catholic Church

General Christian Theology
temporal1
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Re: Prayers for the Catholic Church

Post by temporal1 »

From P.8 / National Catholic Register
Washington State Attacks the Seal of Confession
https://www.ncregister.com/commentaries ... confession

EDITORIAL:
It’s long-standing and settled law in the U.S. that priest-penitent discussions are privileged private communications that can be withheld from legal authorities.
.. Washington’s new law designates Catholic priests (as well as clergy of other religions) as “mandatory reporters” of child-abuse disclosures, meaning they now are required to inform legal authorities when they become aware of such information —
with no exception for communications made to them under the inviolable seal of sacramental confession.
.. Catholic leaders in the state were supportive in principle of the Evergreen State Legislature’s desire to designate clergy as mandatory reporters, alongside of other previously designated groups whose professional responsibilities can place them in a position to hear disclosures of child abuse. In fact, the local Church’s internal policies already require clergy to be mandatory reporters, except when information is obtained during confession. And as in every other U.S. state, Washington’s three dioceses have instituted an array of other measures to comprehensively address the scourge of clergy sexual abuse.

What makes the Washington legislation completely unacceptable to Catholics is its deliberate failure to include an exception for information disclosed by penitents within the privacy of the confessional, despite repeated requests by the Washington State Catholic Conference. Indeed, it’s long-standing and settled law in the U.S., dating back to the groundbreaking First Amendment free-exercise case People v. Philips in 1813, that priest-penitent discussions are privileged private communications that can be withheld from legal authorities.

This is similar to the privilege that necessarily applies to communications between lawyers and their clients and doctors and their patients. Yet the privilege in play when a Catholic makes a sacramental confession to a priest is of an even higher order because it protects communications that occur between penitential sinners and the Son of God himself.

The underlying legal justification for this privilege was outlined by then-U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren Burger, in his 1980 Trammel v. United States decision.

“The priest-penitent privilege recognizes the human need to disclose to a spiritual counselor, in total and absolute confidence, what are believed to be flawed acts or thoughts and to receive priestly consolation and guidance in return,” he commented in that case.

Aside from the obvious unconstitutionality of the new Washington law, it’s fatally flawed in other ways.
Its value in terms of bringing acts of abuse to light would be virtually non-existent in practical terms, since it can be expected that abusers will withhold any sacramental disclosures if they know the priests who hear their confessions are required to immediately report what they said.

Moreover, as both Archbishop Paul Etienne of Seattle and Bishop Thomas Daly of Spokane immediately pointed out after the bill was signed, clergy in their dioceses will not comply with the law under any circumstances. Indeed, if they broke the seal of confession they would incur automatic excommunication under canon law — that’s how serious the Church is about protecting the capacity of sinners to reach out confidentially to God, in the inviolable privacy of the confessional.

Archbishop Etienne pointed out a liturgical irony associated with the timing of the enactment of the law.
The first reading at Mass the following Sunday was from the Acts of the Apostles recounting how, after being jailed along with the other apostles for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, St. Peter unapologetically declared, “We must obey God rather than men.”

Since the clergy-sexual-abuse scandal erupted nationally in 2002, several other states have considered similar bills to force priests to violate the seal of confession, but none have become law, largely because of the likelihood such legislation would never survive court scrutiny. And when a trial judge in Louisiana ruled that a priest could be required to testify about a sexual-abuse disclosure that was allegedly made to him during a sacramental confession, the Bayou State’s Supreme Court overturned that finding in 2016, citing the priest’s inviolable “duty to keep such communications confidential.”

In light of all this, it’s impossible to avoid the conclusion that Gov. Ferguson and the Washington state legislators were grandstanding for short-term political advantage, at taxpayers’ expense, in their attack on the sacramental seal of confession. :evil:
Given how firmly rooted the priest-penitent privilege is within the U.S. Constitution, it’s a near certainty the law will be struck down in short order by their own state’s top court. And if by some legal miscarriage that doesn’t transpire, it’s a slam dunk this egregious violation of the First Amendment will never pass muster with the U.S. Supreme Court.
“READING IS FUNDAMENTAL”
1966 / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_Is_Fundamental
In 1966, while reading to children at a school in Washington, D.C., Margaret McNamara, wife of the United States Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara, was surprised to learn that many of the students did not have any books of their own. With the help of Lynda Johnson Robb[6] and Arthur White,[7] Kathryn Wentzel Lumley was one of the organization's co-founders.[8][9] ..
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temporal1
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Re: Prayers for the Catholic Church

Post by temporal1 »

P.12:
JayP wrote: ↑Thu Jun 19, 2025 8:23 am I do not think there is much question the Church will win this lawsuit.
The compelling argument is that ONLY Clergy are named. The idea that a school nurse retains privileged conversation status or “therapist” who may well or even hold a medical degree yet the confessional alone is stripped of historical legal protections is a gross violation of Constitutional law.

Every religious person should object because this law is not about the Catholic Church, child abuse, or the seal of the confessional.
It is a bare faced open attack on religious practices and an example that many on the left have no real belief in the Constitution. :evil:

It is far more than a slippery slope.
i have NO idea if JayP read The Catholic Register article or not. His stated views do not conflict.
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JohnH
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Re: Prayers for the Catholic Church

Post by JohnH »

The end effect of this will most likely be another SCOTUS case reaffirming religious freedom, unless it gets stalled in the circuit court and WA State gives up the lawsuit.

Which would be a good thing, particularly after NY State’s disgusting behavior with the Amish vaccine case.
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JayP
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Re: Prayers for the Catholic Church

Post by JayP »

I really do not understand why this conversation goes on. The recent posts simply reaffirm what so many of us know and stated.
This is like arguing If grass is green. Child abuse is wrong. The RCC has a horrific record dealing with it, the confessional is secret. Liberal, progressive politicians are anti Christian and anti religion. Sometimes these truths merge.
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temporal1
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Re: Prayers for the Catholic Church

Post by temporal1 »

JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Jun 23, 2025 8:02 am The end effect of this will most likely be another SCOTUS case reaffirming religious freedom, unless it gets stalled in the circuit court and WA State gives up the lawsuit.

Which would be a good thing, particularly after NY State’s disgusting behavior with the Amish vaccine case.
Reference:
March 2025 / Court: NO Vaccine Exemption For Amish Children; Amish FINED $118,000
https://amishamerica.com/no-vaccine-exe ... 0-dollars/
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Ken
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Re: Prayers for the Catholic Church

Post by Ken »

JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Jun 23, 2025 8:02 am The end effect of this will most likely be another SCOTUS case reaffirming religious freedom, unless it gets stalled in the circuit court and WA State gives up the lawsuit.

Which would be a good thing, particularly after NY State’s disgusting behavior with the Amish vaccine case.
Perhaps, perhaps not. 48 other states already have the same law that Washington just passed and something like a dozen of them are identical to the law Washington just passed in that they don't contain any loophole for Catholics. the Supreme Court takes up a tiny fraction (less than 1%) of the cases it gets every year so there is no certainty or even likelihood that they will want to weigh in.

What do the Amish and vaccines have to do with anything? I wasn't aware that the Amish had a religious objection to vaccines. On what religious and scriptural grounds do the Amish in NY state object to vaccines and why?
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JohnH
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Re: Prayers for the Catholic Church

Post by JohnH »

Ken wrote: ↑Mon Jun 23, 2025 11:52 am
JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Jun 23, 2025 8:02 am The end effect of this will most likely be another SCOTUS case reaffirming religious freedom, unless it gets stalled in the circuit court and WA State gives up the lawsuit.

Which would be a good thing, particularly after NY State’s disgusting behavior with the Amish vaccine case.
Perhaps, perhaps not. 48 other states already have the same law that Washington just passed and something like a dozen of them are identical to the law Washington just passed in that they don't contain any loophole for Catholics. the Supreme Court takes up a tiny fraction (less than 1%) of the cases it gets every year so there is no certainty or even likelihood that they will want to weigh in.

What do the Amish and vaccines have to do with anything? I wasn't aware that the Amish had a religious objection to vaccines. On what religious and scriptural grounds do the Amish in NY state object to vaccines and why?
The case is Miller v. McDonald; you’re welcome to go read the lawsuit and read the case the Amish made for themselves.

“Scriptural” grounds are not relevant in a court of law. If the Amish say they have a religious conviction against vaccines, I will believe them.
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temporal1
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Re: Prayers for the Catholic Church

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September 7 / Today is special for Catholics.
The link below has a lot of content.

CNA / Catholic News Agency / LIVE UPDATES:
Canonization of Carlo Acutis and Pier Giorgio Frassati, the first saints of Pope Leo XIV
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... pe-leo-xiv

Vatican News / HOLY MASS WITH CANONIZATIONS OF THE BLESSED:
- PIER GIORGIO FRASSATI
- CARLO ACUTIS

PAPAL MASS
HOMILY OF HIS HOLINESS POPE LEO XIV
St. Peter's Square
23rd Sunday in Ordinary Time, 7 September 2025
http://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/e ... cutis.html

- - - - - - -

Also, a special full moon tonight. No idea if there’s a connection.

Corn Moon: Full Moon in September 2025
https://www.almanac.com/content/full-moon-september
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JayP
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Re: Prayers for the Catholic Church

Post by JayP »

What is special? Two more Saints were declared. There have been a few before this. LOL

From what I read, certainly worthy. If you believe in Saints. Which I do
.
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temporal1
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Re: Prayers for the Catholic Church

Post by temporal1 »

JayP wrote: ↑Sun Sep 07, 2025 9:50 pm What is special? Two more Saints were declared. There have been a few before this. LOL

From what I read, certainly worthy. If you believe in Saints. Which I do.
i was hoping you’d reply.
My grdaughter, 17, is Catholic, we’ve talked about many of the saints, many had challenging childhoods.
Carlos Acutis is near her age. i appreciate the saints and reading about their lives. i respect my grdaughter’s tender faith.
From what i’ve read, leading up to today, my impression was this was a special day for Catholics around the world.

No offense intended.
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