We don't need to be afraid of CRT

[joshuabgood]

joshgood,

But your point does stand, certain denominations do engage in a lot of political worship - but who are you addressing your complaint to? Mennonites don’t fly flags unless they are really liberal. They don’t go to the Super Bowl or “get into politics” about players kneeling. I go to church with a few people who like to talk about politics, and nobody has brought up player behaviour at the Super Bowl or talked about the national anthem.

Perhaps your issue is you need to start associating with more conservative (Mennonite) churches, and encourage people slipping into the right wing political world to do the same.

I am troubled by the fact that in the circles I frequent, the more fundamentalist CA world, the super bowl and the flag do make appearances. I do generally think that the more conservative varieties do better with this. Though, again, in the Old Order Mennonites and Old Order Amish sports and politics loom large in many circles.

[Josh]

joshgood,

But your point does stand, certain denominations do engage in a lot of political worship - but who are you addressing your complaint to? Mennonites don’t fly flags unless they are really liberal. They don’t go to the Super Bowl or “get into politics” about players kneeling. I go to church with a few people who like to talk about politics, and nobody has brought up player behaviour at the Super Bowl or talked about the national anthem.

Perhaps your issue is you need to start associating with more conservative (Mennonite) churches, and encourage people slipping into the right wing political world to do the same.

I am troubled by the fact that in the circles I frequent, the more fundamentalist CA world, the super bowl and the flag do make appearances. I do generally think that the more conservative varieties do better with this. Though, again, in the Old Order Mennonites and Old Order Amish sports and politics loom large in many circles.

Then perhaps the solution is to seek more conservative, less worldly fellowship. The problem, obviously, is that your fundamental-conservative brethren have embraced the world; they just happened to pick the right wing world instead of the left wing world you’d be more comfortable with.

I don’t think my church is excessively conservative, but being focused on politics or sports is viewed as a problem.

[MaxPC]

Perhaps your issue is you need to start associating with more conservative (Mennonite) churches
...
Then perhaps the solution is to seek more conservative, less worldly fellowship. The problem, obviously, is that your fundamental-conservative brethren have embraced the world; they just happened to pick the right wing world instead of the left wing world you’d be more comfortable with.

I don’t think my church is excessively conservative, but being focused on politics or sports is viewed as a problem.

Spot on. Well said.

[RZehr]

joshgood,

But your point does stand, certain denominations do engage in a lot of political worship - but who are you addressing your complaint to? Mennonites don’t fly flags unless they are really liberal. They don’t go to the Super Bowl or “get into politics” about players kneeling. I go to church with a few people who like to talk about politics, and nobody has brought up player behaviour at the Super Bowl or talked about the national anthem.

Perhaps your issue is you need to start associating with more conservative (Mennonite) churches, and encourage people slipping into the right wing political world to do the same.

I am troubled by the fact that in the circles I frequent, the more fundamentalist CA world, the super bowl and the flag do make appearances. I do generally think that the more conservative varieties do better with this. Though, again, in the Old Order Mennonites and Old Order Amish sports and politics loom large in many circles.

The fundamentalist CA world…I’m not sure exactly which churches fall into that category. But I do see some churches that are more liberal that mine that seem more involved in right wing politics and sports, sure. And my church isn’t spotless either. Yet I seriously doubt anyone in my church could say what CRT is and it would surprise me if none have ever heard of it.

And all your talk on this forum about racism in the church is not something I see at all. I’m not saying some churches don’t have it, some probably do. But I think it’s a much bigger problem in your current church circles than I see. To me it is a lot of answers looking for a problem, in terms of the church. Not so much in the world. I’m “mixed race”. I have adopted sibling of a third “race”. I’ve not felt any negativity because of it.

We aren’t afraid of CRT. We don’t need it to tell us how we ought to live, or explain to us why people do sinful things either.

[joshuabgood]

We aren’t afraid of CRT. We don’t need it to tell us how we ought to live, or explain to us why people do sinful things either.

If one were to ask members of your congregation why white people are on average 7 times wealthier than black people...what do you think their response would be? Or why there are so many more black people in prison than white people proportionally? What would you/they say? Or why CA churches are so white...

[Bootstrap]

re: the lack of an out cry regarding the death of Botham Jean: Maybe "almost no outcry" was wrong terminology. But in comparison to these other cases, situations where a person already had a police record, had in some cases just committed a crime, or was uncooperative with police orders, in that sense there was very little response. (Not that I was hoping for riots, but such an unwarranted shooting almost cried out for one.)

I would certainly add Botham Jean to the list, I have had friends mention him. Does this help?

And the people I am listening to say that the deaths of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Tony McDade, Ahmaud Arbery, Stephon Clark, Philando Castile, Alton Sterling, Tamir Rice, Sandra Bland, Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Botham Jean, and others have really hit them hard.

Atatiana Jefferson also comes to mind. Andre Hill. Manuel Ellis. Daunte Wright. Stephon Clark. Jordan Edwards. It would take time and attention to come up with a decent, fairly complete list. I definitely did not mean to leave Botham Jean off the list. Protesters blocked traffic on his behalf outside the courthouse, one of them was arrested, it got a fair amount of news coverage.

I can understand compassion fatigue sometimes. It's exhausting. Lord have mercy.

[Josh]

We aren’t afraid of CRT. We don’t need it to tell us how we ought to live, or explain to us why people do sinful things either.

If one were to ask members of your congregation why white people are on average 7 times wealthier than black people...what do you think their response would be? Or why there are so many more black people in prison than white people proportionally? What would you/they say? Or why CA churches are so white...

Why are (white) Russians poorer than (black) Americans? Is this due to systemic anti-Russianism?

Why are more men in prison than women? Is this due to systemic bias against men?

Why are CA churches so “white”? Tell me, what ethnic groups are represented in CA churches? Which ones aren’t? Does race have anything at all to do with it?

More importantly; why does it bother you so much?
I don’t sit around getting worked up that my own ethnic group or racial classification isn’t well represented at my local Orthodox Tewahedo church, nor would I expect it to be.

[joshuabgood]

Why are more men in prison than women? Is this due to systemic bias against men?

There are compelling reasons to think that yes...in fact there is systemic bias against men with regard to incarceration.

[MaxPC]

We aren’t afraid of CRT. We don’t need it to tell us how we ought to live, or explain to us why people do sinful things either.

Why are (white) Russians poorer than (black) Americans? Is this due to systemic anti-Russianism?

Why are more men in prison than women? Is this due to systemic bias against men?

Why are CA churches so “white”? Tell me, what ethnic groups are represented in CA churches? Which ones aren’t? Does race have anything at all to do with it?

More importantly; why does it bother you so much?
I don’t sit around getting worked up that my own ethnic group or racial classification isn’t well represented at my local Orthodox Tewahedo church, nor would I expect it to be.

Amen.

[joshuabgood]

Why are (white) Russians poorer than (black) Americans? Is this due to systemic anti-Russianism?

If this persists after 4 centuries with several hundreds years of oppression mixed in, then yes. Are you really thinking the Russian experience is a close comparison of the black Americans?

Why are CA churches so “white”? Tell me, what ethnic groups are represented in CA churches? Which ones aren’t? Does race have anything at all to do with it?

More importantly; why does it bother you so much?

Well Revelation makes it pretty clear, as does Paul, that in the church of Jesus Christ all folks should be represented. If the church becomes merely ethnic enclaves that retain their insularity, then an inquiring mind would look into what is going on. Finny K has some good thoughts on the problems with purebred insular churches.

If those that have tried to fellowship with us experience racism then it makes me sad. I have good friends that fall into this category.

And even more, we lose if we don't enjoy the riches of other cultures' theologies, expressions of worship, fellowship etc.