Why Some Churches Practice Infant Baptism and others do not.
Re: Why Some Churches Practice Infant Baptism and others do not.
A church or an individual loses absolutely nothing by not practicing infant baptism. An innocent infant child is blessed, innocent, and holy in the eyes of God whether or not he is baptized. Of such is the kingdom of heaven, Jesus said.
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Re: Why Some Churches Practice Infant Baptism and others do not.
If they are so devout, how come they openly support war? Against each other?Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:49 amAll that has nothing to do with the ancient practice of baptizing a Christians infants & children and the other "Protestant" denominations that believe to do so too, which is what this topic was about. Bad behavior does not negate what was taught. We have visited probably 12 different Orthodox congregations. We spent about a year in one and visit periodically and these are very devout Christians. I refuse to see these people as Apostate no matter what's going on. Jesus did not write off the Jews nor did Paul because they messed up and God did command war so that doesn't make their teachings wrong - any more than bad Jews made the teachings wrongSoloist wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:33 amThe Religion is Christianity, not Orthodox.
The fact that Orthodoxy is corrupt and wages war against their so called brothers does not impact Christianity but it does make them apostate.
Those who were apostate were not pardoned or shown mercy just because they belonged to Abrahams seed. Nor does God spare the corrupt because they had hands laid upon through history back to possibly the apostles.
Infant baptism was not practiced by the apostles, you cannot prove otherwise, so that is the MORE ancient tradition.
I would be able to successfully defend the position that what we know as the Orthodox Church (which is anything but);did not exist before 1054, and they have altered their inalterable rites in 1652, particularly In Russia.
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Re: Why Some Churches Practice Infant Baptism and others do not.
Russia and Ukraine’s war with each other is complete apostasy. And the Eastern Orthodox on both sides bless and condone troops going to war.
And J M is right - they changed a bunch of traditions. The Old Believers try to stick to the older ones. Which group is right? The EO hierarchy simply claims “We are the authorities so whatever we say is right.”
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Re: Why Some Churches Practice Infant Baptism and others do not.
We don't discuss war. There are Orthodox against what's happening and you know that. God obviously didn't oppose war. I don't question God about that- why he wanted Jews to kill others.Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:19 amIf they are so devout, how come they openly support war? Against each other?Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:49 amAll that has nothing to do with the ancient practice of baptizing a Christians infants & children and the other "Protestant" denominations that believe to do so too, which is what this topic was about. Bad behavior does not negate what was taught. We have visited probably 12 different Orthodox congregations. We spent about a year in one and visit periodically and these are very devout Christians. I refuse to see these people as Apostate no matter what's going on. Jesus did not write off the Jews nor did Paul because they messed up and God did command war so that doesn't make their teachings wrong - any more than bad Jews made the teachings wrongSoloist wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:33 am
The Religion is Christianity, not Orthodox.
The fact that Orthodoxy is corrupt and wages war against their so called brothers does not impact Christianity but it does make them apostate.
Those who were apostate were not pardoned or shown mercy just because they belonged to Abrahams seed. Nor does God spare the corrupt because they had hands laid upon through history back to possibly the apostles.
Infant baptism was not practiced by the apostles, you cannot prove otherwise, so that is the MORE ancient tradition.
I would be able to successfully defend the position that what we know as the Orthodox Church (which is anything but);did not exist before 1054, and they have altered their inalterable rites in 1652, particularly In Russia.
You're entitled to your opinion, I just think it is incorrect and I don't agree with your conclusions
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Re: Why Some Churches Practice Infant Baptism and others do not.
Again. This topic was about which churches have infant baptism. Not supposed to be about EO.Josh wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:46 amRussia and Ukraine’s war with each other is complete apostasy. And the Eastern Orthodox on both sides bless and condone troops going to war.
And J M is right - they changed a bunch of traditions. The Old Believers try to stick to the older ones. Which group is right? The EO hierarchy simply claims “We are the authorities so whatever we say is right.”
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Re: Why Some Churches Practice Infant Baptism and others do not.
The topic is “why”, not “which”.Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:59 amAgain. This topic was about which churches have infant baptism. Not supposed to be about EO.Josh wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:46 amRussia and Ukraine’s war with each other is complete apostasy. And the Eastern Orthodox on both sides bless and condone troops going to war.
And J M is right - they changed a bunch of traditions. The Old Believers try to stick to the older ones. Which group is right? The EO hierarchy simply claims “We are the authorities so whatever we say is right.”
The “why” has a simple answer: churches practice infant baptism as part of maintaining state control and power over their members, part and parcel with claiming salvation only comes from officially being baptised in the state-sanctioned church. This is what the Anabaptists rebelled against.
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Re: Why Some Churches Practice Infant Baptism and others do not.
Jesus started the Church with His Apostles. The Holy Spirit then was poured out on them and the church began and it was said long before Constantine by Origen that the Apostles themselves taught to baptize infants. This was not a late invention. Certainly the ancient Church can go make a Scriptural case for it even if you don't agree with their interpretations but historically this was practiced and has been for about 2000 years not made up by Roman Catholics later which is what Early Anabaptists thought.mike wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:58 amAncient does not equate to what Jesus and the apostles taught in the scriptures. Christianity is about following Jesus.Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:49 amAll that has nothing to do with the ancient practice of baptizing a Christians infants & children and the other "Protestant" denominations that believe to do so too, which is what this topic was about. Bad behavior does not negate what was taught. We have visited probably 12 different Orthodox congregations. We spent about a year in one and visit periodically and these are very devout Christians. I refuse to see these people as Apostate no matter what's going on. Jesus did not write off the Jews nor did Paul because they messed up and God did command war so that doesn't make their teachings wrong - any more than bad Jews made the teachings wrongSoloist wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:33 am
The Religion is Christianity, not Orthodox.
The fact that Orthodoxy is corrupt and wages war against their so called brothers does not impact Christianity but it does make them apostate.
Those who were apostate were not pardoned or shown mercy just because they belonged to Abrahams seed. Nor does God spare the corrupt because they had hands laid upon through history back to possibly the apostles.
Last edited by Valerie on Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Some Churches Practice Infant Baptism and others do not.
Wrong. Had nothing to do with the original reason. Reasoning here by most has only endorsed what I now believe but had not for decades until willing to learnJosh wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:01 amThe topic is “why”, not “which”.Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:59 amAgain. This topic was about which churches have infant baptism. Not supposed to be about EO.Josh wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:46 am
Russia and Ukraine’s war with each other is complete apostasy. And the Eastern Orthodox on both sides bless and condone troops going to war.
And J M is right - they changed a bunch of traditions. The Old Believers try to stick to the older ones. Which group is right? The EO hierarchy simply claims “We are the authorities so whatever we say is right.”
The “why” has a simple answer: churches practice infant baptism as part of maintaining state control and power over their members, part and parcel with claiming salvation only comes from officially being baptised in the state-sanctioned church. This is what the Anabaptists rebelled against.
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Re: Why Some Churches Practice Infant Baptism and others do not.
As long as you keep arguing for infant baptism being taught from the beginning, we will continue to show that you are wrong.
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Re: Why Some Churches Practice Infant Baptism and others do not.
Origen is not one of the apostles, and for this his writings are not part of the canon of scripture. Christianity is based on the teachings of Jesus and the apostles.Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:05 amJesus started the Church with His Apostles. The Holy Spirit then was poured out on them and the church began and it was said long before Constantine by Origen that the Apostles themselves taught to baptize infants. This was not a late invention. Certainly the ancient Church can go make a Scriptural case for it even if you don't agree with their interpretations but historically this was practiced and has been for about 2000 years not made up by Roman Catholics later which is what Early Anabaptists thought.mike wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:58 amAncient does not equate to what Jesus and the apostles taught in the scriptures. Christianity is about following Jesus.Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:49 am
All that has nothing to do with the ancient practice of baptizing a Christians infants & children and the other "Protestant" denominations that believe to do so too, which is what this topic was about. Bad behavior does not negate what was taught. We have visited probably 12 different Orthodox congregations. We spent about a year in one and visit periodically and these are very devout Christians. I refuse to see these people as Apostate no matter what's going on. Jesus did not write off the Jews nor did Paul because they messed up and God did command war so that doesn't make their teachings wrong - any more than bad Jews made the teachings wrong
Are you part of a church that baptizes infants? If not, why not? Why do you expect most people on a Mennonite web forum not to push back strongly against the idea of infant baptism, a cardinal reason for the beginning of the Anabaptist movement? You seem shocked and disappointed by this. What else would you expect?
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Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3