Poll: Loving Putin

[temporal1]

Sudsy:
With that said, a question -
For those who have 'Christian love for Putin' how is this heart felt love being expressed ?

in this thread, i’m hoping to focus on Christian love for Putin, specifically - as an object lesson (for myself) i’ve struggled with what Matthew 5:44 is saying (in different cases). it’s important for the word, “love” to hold special value, not to be trivialized.

i’m hopeful, by trying to focus on 1 Hard Case/Putin, that many are simultaneously facing, in varying degrees,
maybe i can get a better grasp of what this is all about.

i kind of get it, maybe i mostly get it?
but, esp when it comes to politicians, i’m not sure. love.

since i was a teen and learned about praying for leaders, not hating, tolerating, etc., i think i’ve been pretty consistent in these things. sincerely so. even in disagreement, disgust, etc. i’m able to see the human, his humanity. the soul that Jesus wants.

but, in Matthew 5:44, Jesus is clearly asking for more. love. can i do that?? i’m not sure.

You posed the next question, how is this Christian love expressed (specifically for Putin)?

The now 32 poll responses are encouraging!
no hatefulness or revenge.

[PetrChelcicky]

Well, I opted for "Christian love" but I know that I have not been quite honest here.
Firstly, he has not persecuted ME, so I do not need to conquest myself for to love him.
Then, I'm a happy contrarian. If our media paint someone as black, whoever he is, I will always look for his good sides.
So I have rather mundane motives. At best I can say that I unhesitantly follow my mundane motives because in this case they go parallel to a Christian approach.

[PetrChelcicky]

As for Franklin,
I am not convinced that everyone must follow a conservative lifestyle. But everyone who wants to follow a conservative lifestyle ought to have an opportunity to do so. Creating such opportunities is, in my eyes, the great political task of our generation.
That said, a "conservative country" established and secured by a government, is not the best opportunity.
The best option are conservative settlements in a country whose government respects the liberties and pluralism of different communities. (With other words, an Amish settlement, in the United States, even now - perhaps even in hundred years.)

[Sudsy]

Question - is it loving Putin when we continue to talk about all the sins he is responsible for ? Just curious.

If anyone is curious, I voted # 5. Mr. Putin, imo, is guilty of all these killings as he began and has the power to stop this war. The loving thing would be to put Mr. Putin in prison and go on trial. Meanwhile in prison, pray that God would send someone to go and share the Gospel with him believing salvation is still possible.

Like this mission to Adolf Eichmann - https://content.time.com/time/subscribe ... -1,00.html

[Ken]

Question - is it loving Putin when we continue to talk about all the sins he is responsible for ? Just curious.

I know nothing of the actual man who is Putin. I know nothing of his personal life or who he actually is. I suspect he is quite isolated and alone and somewhat trapped by circumstances of his own making. But I have no way of judging.

Putin has chosen to be an actor on the world stage and his actions affect hundreds of millions of people around the world. He has not taken a private path. In fact few people on this planet are unaffected by Putin's actions in some way (fuel prices, food prices, climate change from fossil fuels, elections meddling, weapons exports, etc.). So it is entirely appropriate to hold opinions about the actions he has taken to the extent that they affect others. And judge his actions. This is entirely different from having an opinion about his soul or whether one extends to him a sense of Christian or brotherly love.

[Sudsy]

Question - is it loving Putin when we continue to talk about all the sins he is responsible for ? Just curious.

I know nothing of the actual man who is Putin. I know nothing of his personal life or who he actually is. I suspect he is quite isolated and alone and somewhat trapped by circumstances of his own making. But I have no way of judging.

Putin has chosen to be an actor on the world stage and his actions affect hundreds of millions of people around the world. He has not taken a private path. In fact few people on this planet are unaffected by Putin's actions in some way (fuel prices, food prices, climate change from fossil fuels, elections meddling, weapons exports, etc.). So it is entirely appropriate to hold opinions about the actions he has taken to the extent that they affect others. And judge his actions. This is entirely different from having an opinion about his soul or whether one extends to him a sense of Christian or brotherly love.

Thankyou for your explanation. I had just added to my previous comment about an attempt to save Adolf Eichmann's soul that some may not be aware of.

[Josh]

Putin has chosen to be an actor on the world stage and his actions affect hundreds of millions of people around the world. He has not taken a private path. In fact few people on this planet are unaffected by Putin's actions in some way (fuel prices, food prices, climate change from fossil fuels, elections meddling, weapons exports, etc.).

Would you share the same objections about Biden's actions which have affected fuel prices and food prices? (In theory, higher fuel prices mean less climate change from fossil fuels?)

The reason I say this is that I notice plenty of griping from the right wing about Biden's actions, and plenty from the left wing about blaming everything on Putin. I think both impulses are bad. The "I did that!" stickers on fuel pumps are funny, but overall this is negative. Being busy blaming world leaders for structural problems seems very foolish to me. If Navalny were the leader of Russia and the U.S. had elected, I don't know, Evan McMullin, we'd probably still have inflation and high fuel and food prices.

[Ken]

Putin has chosen to be an actor on the world stage and his actions affect hundreds of millions of people around the world. He has not taken a private path. In fact few people on this planet are unaffected by Putin's actions in some way (fuel prices, food prices, climate change from fossil fuels, elections meddling, weapons exports, etc.).

Would you share the same objections about Biden's actions which have affected fuel prices and food prices? (In theory, higher fuel prices mean less climate change from fossil fuels?)

The reason I say this is that I notice plenty of griping from the right wing about Biden's actions, and plenty from the left wing about blaming everything on Putin. I think both impulses are bad. The "I did that!" stickers on fuel pumps are funny, but overall this is negative. Being busy blaming world leaders for structural problems seems very foolish to me. If Navalny were the leader of Russia and the U.S. had elected, I don't know, Evan McMullin, we'd probably still have inflation and high fuel and food prices.

Yes, I'm perfectly willing to judge Biden's actions as well as every other individual and politician who affects the lives of others from Congress to Mark Zuckerberg to Jeff Bezos.

Here in the US from what I have read and observed, high fuel prices are due to a combination of (1) Covid-related cutbacks in oil production, (2) failure of Americans and American industry to move to higher fuel efficiency and alternative fuels, (3) global events like the war in Ukraine. US presidents whether Trump or Biden have very little to do with fuel prices.

I'm actually of the opinion that fossil fuel prices are way too low and don't fully account for the costs associated with burning such fuels. But I understand that is a minority view. As for Putin? I think he is a bad actor on the world stage, but I think the west is equally culpable if not more so for willingly if not eagerly partnering with him. Germany is the most egregious example of a country that willingly cast it's lot around fossil fuels from Russia when they could and should have known better. If this worldwide crisis over Ukraine has a silver lining (and I'm not saying that it does) it would be that the wealthy countries of western Europe finally get serious about cutting their consumption of fossil fuels.

Western Europe right now is whining about "blackmail". It is their own fault that they put themselves into that position.

[Josh]

Germany is the most egregious example of a country that willingly cast it's lot around fossil fuels from Russia when they could and should have known better.

Germany has been in the grip of the Greens for a while who talk a lot about moving to move "sustainable" fuels and moving away from fossil fuels and nuclear. But so far, that has just meant they import a lot of energy and fuel since they closed nuclear power plants and coal fired plants, and importing electricity from a neighbour that burns fossil fuels to generate it doesn't meaningfully improve anything.

So I view with scepticism those who talk about "we need to cut consumption of fossil fuels", since their track record is abysmal. If someone really wants to cut fossil fuel consumption then simply stop importing it.

[barnhart]

For those who have 'Christian love for Putin' how is this heart felt love being expressed ?

Pray for him to repent and turn to a life of obedience to King Jesus, refrain from expressing disapproval in terms that are dehumanizing (ethnic or racial slurs, animal comparisons) or claiming he is possessed or under the direct control of Satan, don't claim specific knowledge of his motives, don't express wishes of evil on him, pray for him as you would your own brother who has fallen into deception and sin.