Christians killing each other

[Bootstrap]

Is it right or wrong to defend one's self against Nazis? Well, Russia is doing exactly that in Donetsk and Luhansk.

That's what Putin claimed. He even made claims of genocide. He doesn't seem to be able to convince other nations that it is true. Have you considered the possibility that you are promoting propaganda created by a military aggressor in order to justify their actions?

Ukraine is no threat to Russia. And most of Russia's military action is not in Donetsk and Luhansk.

And that's why Christians shouldn't get involved in choosing who is "right".

If so, then that's true on MN as well.

Grieving, praying, and asking God how we can help is probably the most important thing we can do. Somehow, most of the chatter seems to deflect from that. We really should focus on our own role in the Kingdom of God.

But blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness and justice. That's in the Bible too.

[Soloist]

Is it right or wrong to defend one's self against Nazis? Well, Russia is doing exactly that in Donetsk and Luhansk.

That's what Putin claimed. He even made claims of genocide. He doesn't seem to be able to convince other nations that it is true. Have you considered the possibility that you are promoting propaganda created by a military aggressor in order to justify their actions?

Ukraine is no threat to Russia. And most of Russia's military action is not in Donetsk and Luhansk.

In the grand scheme of things, Russia is a nobody. China is the real problem. When we talk about harm done to people in general, China is committing geocide and the US looks the other way.
Russia is the enemy the US loves to have, perhaps you should ask yourself why it is so important to speak out about the aggression Russia is doing but I don't recall you speaking out about aggression against Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen or Afghanistan. Be careful not to take sides, and I direct this at two outspoken people on both sides.

Ukraine might be no threat to Russia, but Nato is. Don't try to say Nato is peaceful because it was made to counter Russian aggression...Western empires are not somehow more moral and honorable then the east, we just pretend better.
If your neighbor points a rocket launcher at you and you point one back and he says he's doing it to counter your aggression, are you going to pull the rocket launcher you put up? no you would retain that counter despite it being an offensive weapon. Meanwhile images of your neighbor's rocket launcher is circulated to your friends to drum up support so you are not so lonely with your one rocket. Meanwhile he takes pictures of yours and does the same thing. 50 years later, you still are doing it. Why? to counter their aggression.
Obviously this doesn't fully fit Russia or the US actions but rarely is a nation's response as glamorous, heroic or honorable as they (themselves) claim it is.

[Bootstrap]

Is it right or wrong to defend one's self against Nazis? Well, Russia is doing exactly that in Donetsk and Luhansk.

That's what Putin claimed. He even made claims of genocide. He doesn't seem to be able to convince other nations that it is true. Have you considered the possibility that you are promoting propaganda created by a military aggressor in order to justify their actions?

Ukraine is no threat to Russia. And most of Russia's military action is not in Donetsk and Luhansk.

In the grand scheme of things, Russia is a nobody. China is the real problem. When we talk about harm done to people in general, China is committing genocide and the US looks the other way.

I agree with you on China. I don't think that means we should ignore Russia, both are committing very serious atrocities.

Russia is the enemy the US loves to have, perhaps you should ask yourself why it is so important to speak out about the aggression Russia is doing but I don't recall you speaking out about aggression against Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen or Afghanistan.

I think that's a problem with your memory, I am confident I have spoken out on at least several of these. You seem to be comfortable speaking out against aggression in some place, but not when Russia invades Ukraine. Why is that? You clearly are taking sides in certain conflicts. You feel comfortable speaking out against China - where I agree with you. Why not here?

Ukraine might be no threat to Russia, but NATO is. Don't try to say NATO is peaceful because it was made to counter Russian aggression...Western empires are not somehow more moral and honorable then the east, we just pretend better.

I would have the same response if NATO invaded a country without provocation. I would have the same response if Biden declared that the Canadian truck drivers are Nazis and invaded to "liberate" Canada.

Why does Putin get a pass?

[Soloist]

I agree with you on China. I don't think that means we should ignore Russia, both are committing very serious atrocities.

Other then ignoring a country sovereign territory?

I think that's a problem with your memory, I am confident I have spoken out on at least several of these. You seem to be comfortable speaking out against aggression in some place, but not when Russia invades Ukraine. Why is that? You clearly are taking sides in certain conflicts. You feel comfortable speaking out against China - where I agree with you. Why not here?

Okay so a he said argument. You accuse me of taking sides yet didn't even respond when I clearly stated I don't support Putin's aggression.

I would have the same response if NATO invaded a country without provocation. I would have the same response if Biden declared that the Canadian truck drivers are Nazis and invaded to "liberate" Canada.

Your position seems very politically oriented. One should ask if a Christian sides with current political sways or holds a consistent response despite politics. Where is your counter culture response? it seems like you line up very well with a certain side and you are unable to see it in yourself despite numerous people on this forum pointing out your blind spot.
Feel free to link to the posts where you spoke out against those wars with even half as much commitment as to this one.

[Josh]

Is it right or wrong to defend one's self against Nazis? Well, Russia is doing exactly that in Donetsk and Luhansk.

That's what Putin claimed. He even made claims of genocide. He doesn't seem to be able to convince other nations that it is true. Have you considered the possibility that you are promoting propaganda created by a military aggressor in order to justify their actions?

Ukraine is no threat to Russia. And most of Russia's military action is not in Donetsk and Luhansk.

I cut-and-paste from Wikipedia about Azov, Ukraine's special forces unit, which is basically a neo-Nazi militia. This is not "propaganda", this is generally agreed upon facts.

Most of Ukraine's military action at the state of this conflict was indeed in Donetsk and Luhansk. And NATO is obviously a threat to Russia. Are you claiming NATO isn't? This entire conflict revolves around NATO refusing to say they won't expect into the Ukraine.

Do you think NATO expanding into the Ukraine is okay? Why do you feel NATO aggression is OK but Russian aggression isn't? (I hold the position that neither is OK, but since I'm an American-Australian in America, I feel like I need to speak out against NATO, and in particular NATO's rather questionable dalliances with neo-Nazi groups like we find in the Ukraine.)

[Szdfan]

So there are neo-Nazi paramilitaries in eastern Ukraine fighting Russian-backed separatist forces in Donetsk and Lugansk. A major reason why these paramilitaries exist is because of the Russian 2014 annexation of Crimea and Russian support for the so-called “People’s Republics.”

The Ukrainian government, however, is not being run by neo-Nazis. Zelenskyy is Jewish. The entire “denazification” accusation is code for regime change and a pretext for war.

[Josh]

So there are neo-Nazi paramilitaries in eastern Ukraine fighting Russian-backed separatist forces in Donetsk and Lugansk. A major reason why these paramilitaries exist is because of the Russian 2014 annexation of Crimea and Russian support for the so-called “People’s Republics.”

The Ukrainian government, however, is not being run by neo-Nazis. Zelenskyy is Jewish. The entire “denazification” accusation is code for regime change and a pretext for war.

Actually, the official Ukrainian military's special forces are a neo-Nazi far-right wing:

Azov Special Operations Detachment (Ukrainian: Окремий загін спеціального призначення «Азов», romanized: Okremyi zahin spetsialnoho pryznachennia "Azov"), often known as Azov Detachment, Azov Regiment (Ukrainian: Полк Азов, romanized: Polk Azov), or Azov Battalion (until September 2014), is a right-wing extremist[1] and neo-Nazi Ukrainian National Guard unit,[2][3][4][5][6][7] based in Mariupol, in the Azov Sea coastal region.[8] It saw its first combat experience recapturing Mariupol from pro-Russian separatists forces in June 2014.[4] Azov initially formed as a volunteer militia on 5 May 2014 during the Ukrainian crisis.[9] On 12 November 2014, Azov was incorporated into the National Guard of Ukraine, and since then all members are contract soldiers serving in the National Guard of Ukraine.[10]

These are fully integrated into the Ukrainian military, much as my state's national guard is very much a part of the U.S. military. A bigger question is why anyone would support this, particularly after much bleating about the evils of neo-Nazis and far-right people in America, with a sudden shift in complete support for the exact same thing in the Donbass, where as far as I can tell these outfits are terrorists who like to terrorise the local Russian population in Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic.

These are neo-Nazi terror groups that invade the Donbass and find safe harbour in the Ukraine. (These two republics are independent now and are not part of "eastern Ukraine".)

[Soloist]

So there are neo-Nazi paramilitaries in eastern Ukraine fighting Russian-backed separatist forces in Donetsk and Lugansk. A major reason why these paramilitaries exist is because of the Russian 2014 annexation of Crimea and Russian support for the so-called “People’s Republics.”

The Ukrainian government, however, is not being run by neo-Nazis. Zelenskyy is Jewish. The entire “denazification” accusation is code for regime change and a pretext for war.

Not knowing the political situation over there very well, I would agree with the primary claim. I accept that I'm not very well informed about the politics of Ukraine's interior.

[Ken]

Ukraine might be no threat to Russia, but Nato is. Don't try to say Nato is peaceful because it was made to counter Russian aggression...Western empires are not somehow more moral and honorable then the east, we just pretend better.

According to British Secretary General Ismay, the first head of NATO, the purpose of NATO was

"to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down,"

[Neto]

This topic is about Christians killing Christians, and it doesn't matter who is doing it, that is an unconscionable evil.