We don't need to be afraid of CRT

[joshuabgood]

Racism is a non-issue for a born again, Spirit filled and lead Christian. The more we see ourselves as strangers, aliens and ambassadors of a Kingdom, not of this world, I believe we will not concern ourselves with how the world tries to fix itself outside of knowing and following Christ. The answer has and always will be the same. Be born of the Spirit and God will, through His Spirit, lead us in living a Kingdom way of life regardless of whatever setting we find ourselves in.

There seems to be too much 'left' and 'right' talk about worldly systems when we need more of an 'up' and 'down' concern about our relationship with God and how He can change us and those who are our neighbour's.

YMMV.

Maybe but that is also like saying "Lust is a non-issue for a born again, Spirit filled and lead Christan." Or pride is a non-issue...etc etc. Racism is really the sin of pride, that is personal preference and favoritism.

[Bootstrap]

Racism is a non-issue for a born again, Spirit filled and lead Christian. The more we see ourselves as strangers, aliens and ambassadors of a Kingdom, not of this world, I believe we will not concern ourselves with how the world tries to fix itself outside of knowing and following Christ. The answer has and always will be the same. Be born of the Spirit and God will, through His Spirit, lead us in living a Kingdom way of life regardless of whatever setting we find ourselves in.

There seems to be too much 'left' and 'right' talk about worldly systems when we need more of an 'up' and 'down' concern about our relationship with God and how He can change us and those who are our neighbour's.

YMMV.

I think it would be really helpful to stop talking about "right versus left" entirely and use words and teachings from the Bible.

But the New Testament shows us that even spirit-filled Christians have a hard time dealing with some very similar issues. Realistically, both individual Christians and churches need to wrestle with things the Bible teaches us, it doesn't come instantly, and we all struggle with denial.

[Ken]

Racism is a non-issue for a born again, Spirit filled and lead Christian. The more we see ourselves as strangers, aliens and ambassadors of a Kingdom, not of this world, I believe we will not concern ourselves with how the world tries to fix itself outside of knowing and following Christ. The answer has and always will be the same. Be born of the Spirit and God will, through His Spirit, lead us in living a Kingdom way of life regardless of whatever setting we find ourselves in.

There seems to be too much 'left' and 'right' talk about worldly systems when we need more of an 'up' and 'down' concern about our relationship with God and how He can change us and those who are our neighbour's.

YMMV.

Unfortunately there are millions of born again Christians who are overt racists. I've got some in my own family. And many others who tolerate racism that occurs around them. And millions of other Christians who suffer from racism both here and abroad.

You can propose some hypothetical ideal Christian who largely does not exist in the real world. Or we can discuss the actual institutions of Christianity and Christians who do exist in the world and evaluate them.

What do you think Christ would say about racism were he to visit our world in person?

[PetrChelcicky]

Over the years I have become more and more skeptical w.r.t. words who end with "ism" and "-ist". They lead to muddled thinking and sweeping allegations. Often I simply don't understand what people want to tell me really.
For example, "racism" was once defined as an "attitude"; and as such it is basically a construct out of answers to questionnaires. As such the concept was able to be criticised as well as defended, in the same way as sociologists criticise or defend other concepts of other attitudes.
But as an attitude, racism is obviously related to persons and cannot be ascribed to "systems", whatever they are. The use of the word "system" has been popularized by the Marxists and leads to a certain amount of stultification. (Like a German saying goes: The word sets in when a thought is absent,)
As far as I see, "systemic racism" is now used as a passepartout explanation for all cases where their are inequalities between races. It doesn't help anyone to find a precise explanation for precise inequalities; rather it helps Blacks to imagine that those inequalities exist independent from themselves and their own behaviour.
This is not exactly what the Bible teaches. The Bible is neither fanatic about producing "equity" nor about denying personal responsibility. It is perhaps not accidental that "racism" is never conceptuallized or included in a catalogue of human sins.

[joshuabgood]

Over the years I have become more and more skeptical w.r.t. words who end with "ism" and "-ist". They lead to muddled thinking and sweeping allegations. Often I simply don't understand what people want to tell me really.
For example, "racism" was once defined as an "attitude"; and as such it is basically a construct out of answers to questionnaires. As such the concept was able to be criticised as well as defended, in the same way as sociologists criticise or defend other concepts of other attitudes.
But as an attitude, racism is obviously related to persons and cannot be ascribed to "systems", whatever they are. The use of the word "system" has been popularized by the Marxists and leads to a certain amount of stultification. (Like a German saying goes: The word sets in when a thought is absent,)
As far as I see, "systemic racism" is now used as a passepartout explanation for all cases where their are inequalities between races. It doesn't help anyone to find a precise explanation for precise inequalities; rather it helps Blacks to imagine that those inequalities exist independent from themselves and their own behaviour.
This is not exactly what the Bible teaches. The Bible is neither fanatic about producing "equity" nor about denying personal responsibility. It is perhaps not accidental that "racism" is never conceptuallized or included in a catalogue of human sins.

Did you read what I wrote? And did you read the Karen Swallow Prior article I linked.

[MaxPC]

Over the years I have become more and more skeptical w.r.t. words who end with "ism" and "-ist". They lead to muddled thinking and sweeping allegations. Often I simply don't understand what people want to tell me really.
For example, "racism" was once defined as an "attitude"; and as such it is basically a construct out of answers to questionnaires. As such the concept was able to be criticised as well as defended, in the same way as sociologists criticise or defend other concepts of other attitudes.
But as an attitude, racism is obviously related to persons and cannot be ascribed to "systems", whatever they are. The use of the word "system" has been popularized by the Marxists and leads to a certain amount of stultification. (Like a German saying goes: The word sets in when a thought is absent,)
As far as I see, "systemic racism" is now used as a passepartout explanation for all cases where their are inequalities between races. It doesn't help anyone to find a precise explanation for precise inequalities; rather it helps Blacks to imagine that those inequalities exist independent from themselves and their own behaviour.
This is not exactly what the Bible teaches. The Bible is neither fanatic about producing "equity" nor about denying personal responsibility. It is perhaps not accidental that "racism" is never conceptuallized or included in a catalogue of human sins.

Quite. Additionally those African Americans who are renowned for their logic and solid thinking skills (Thomas Sowell, Baucham, Duson, King, et al.) have all with only one exception, criticized this theory from a white professor in an Ivy League univ.

My personal view: I prefer to listen to African American leaders about this latest fad theory designed by a white prof in order to be published for academic rewards.

[Sudsy]

Racism is a non-issue for a born again, Spirit filled and lead Christian. The more we see ourselves as strangers, aliens and ambassadors of a Kingdom, not of this world, I believe we will not concern ourselves with how the world tries to fix itself outside of knowing and following Christ. The answer has and always will be the same. Be born of the Spirit and God will, through His Spirit, lead us in living a Kingdom way of life regardless of whatever setting we find ourselves in.

There seems to be too much 'left' and 'right' talk about worldly systems when we need more of an 'up' and 'down' concern about our relationship with God and how He can change us and those who are our neighbour's.

YMMV.

Unfortunately there are millions of born again Christians who are overt racists. I've got some in my own family. And many others who tolerate racism that occurs around them. And millions of other Christians who suffer from racism both here and abroad.

You can propose some hypothetical ideal Christian who largely does not exist in the real world. Or we can discuss the actual institutions of Christianity and Christians who do exist in the world and evaluate them.

What do you think Christ would say about racism were he to visit our world in person?

Thanks guys for those replies. This one ended with a question so I will give my response here.

I think some of us may have different views on what it means to be a 'Spirit filled Christian'. Myself, I believe the scriptures teach that being 'Spirit filled' is an on-going need for a believer and is not a one-time experience nor is it a state of being from the moment we are saved / become born of the Spirit.

I totally agree that we should not live in denial that one of our main adversary is our flesh/ego. We are in a war where there is a constant battle between our reborn Spirit and the flesh. I don't believe that we reach a state of sinlessness as in totally sanctified in our practise even though God sees us in Christ as sanctified.

But scripture says for us to keep being filled with the Spirit and we will not be controlled by the flesh. How do we know we are Spirit filled ? By whether or not the fruit of the Spirit is manifest in our lives. Racism, all ungodly lusts of the flesh, pride, etc are indications we are not walking in the Spirit.

As was the case in the early church and is such also today many, if not perhaps most of us, are not living the Spirit filled life. So, we try to analyze why we sin the way we do looking for human solutions when scripture gives us the solution to overcoming sin, continuing to be filled and walking under the control of the Holy Spirit.

Now to the question - I believe Christ is here in the person of the Holy Spirit. Through the Spirit, He has told us to go on being filled with the Spirit (which I believe is living according to the guidance of the Spirit) and we will not give way to these fleshly lusts. If pride, racism and many other deeds of the flesh are showing up in my life, I'm not filled and walking in the Spirit.

Perhaps due to strange unbiblical activity that goes on by some who claimed to be Spirit filled, other Christians shy away from this subject. But there are some that do live in this way of Kingdom life and enjoy every moment of a Spirit filled existence. I know some of these Christians that every characteristic of the Spirit's fruit shines. I wish I could say I was one of them in more of my day.

So, when it comes to fear of CRT and all other fears (except fear of the Lord), the Spirit filled life lives in peace and all fears are cast out. Seems this view is not shared here so I am not surprised to get push back. I do appreciate replies.

[temporal1]

Max:
Quite. Additionally those African Americans who are renowned for their logic and solid thinking skills (Thomas Sowell, Baucham, Duson, King, et al.) have all with only one exception, criticized this theory from a white professor in an Ivy League univ.

My personal view: I prefer to listen to African American leaders about this latest fad theory designed by a white prof in order to be published for academic rewards.

i hope you listen to the 3 videos i posted above, Page 1. they’re short, but each makes numerous worthwhile points.
Thomas Sowell speaks on intellectuals, all the more fascinating because HE is an authentic intellectual, in my view.
some are specially gifted with clarity of thought, TS is noted for being an intellectual while having special ability to break down complex topics in ways that can be understood by lay folk.

yesterday, i took a flight of fancy and told my family i’m moving to Zambia to join VB’s church there.
that gave me something interesting to read about. and a vacation from everyday thoughts.

[joshuabgood]

Max:
Quite. Additionally those African Americans who are renowned for their logic and solid thinking skills (Thomas Sowell, Baucham, Duson, King, et al.) have all with only one exception, criticized this theory from a white professor in an Ivy League univ.

My personal view: I prefer to listen to African American leaders about this latest fad theory designed by a white prof in order to be published for academic rewards.

i hope you listen to the 3 videos i posted above, Page 1. they’re short, but each makes numerous worthwhile points.
Thomas Sowell speaks on intellectuals, all the more fascinating because HE is an authentic intellectual, in my view.
some are specially gifted with clarity of thought, TS is noted for being an intellectual while having special ability to break down complex topics in ways that can be understood by lay folk.

yesterday, i took a flight of fancy and told my family i’m moving to Zambia to join VB’s church there.
that gave me something interesting to read about. and a vacation from everyday thoughts.

Are you under the impression that most black intellectual leaders agree with your thinking?

[Ken]

Over the years I have become more and more skeptical w.r.t. words who end with "ism" and "-ist". They lead to muddled thinking and sweeping allegations. Often I simply don't understand what people want to tell me really.
For example, "racism" was once defined as an "attitude"; and as such it is basically a construct out of answers to questionnaires. As such the concept was able to be criticised as well as defended, in the same way as sociologists criticise or defend other concepts of other attitudes.
But as an attitude, racism is obviously related to persons and cannot be ascribed to "systems", whatever they are. The use of the word "system" has been popularized by the Marxists and leads to a certain amount of stultification. (Like a German saying goes: The word sets in when a thought is absent,)
As far as I see, "systemic racism" is now used as a passepartout explanation for all cases where their are inequalities between races. It doesn't help anyone to find a precise explanation for precise inequalities; rather it helps Blacks to imagine that those inequalities exist independent from themselves and their own behaviour.
This is not exactly what the Bible teaches. The Bible is neither fanatic about producing "equity" nor about denying personal responsibility. It is perhaps not accidental that "racism" is never conceptuallized or included in a catalogue of human sins.

Quite. Additionally those African Americans who are renowned for their logic and solid thinking skills (Thomas Sowell, Baucham, Duson, King, et al.) have all with only one exception, criticized this theory from a white professor in an Ivy League univ.

My personal view: I prefer to listen to African American leaders about this latest fad theory designed by a white prof in order to be published for academic rewards.

But you aren't "listening to African American leaders." You are listening to a very tiny minority of African American writers.