The Gospel and Salvation according to various faith traditions...

[ohio jones]

When I lived in Germany, I talked to a German who told me that German food is among the best in the world because it has so much variety. I asked him about Chinese food, he said it was all just rice and stir fry. I asked him about Indian food, he said it was all just curry. I asked him about American food, he said it was mostly hamburgers and french fries. To be fair, I think a lot of people probably would have similar stereotypes about German food.

Yes, German food is the wurst.

[Swiss Bro]

Missing the mainline protestant (reformed and Lutheran) approach: saved if baptized as an infant, and Calvinist: saved if predestined.

I joined the Lutheran church when I was 27 years old and was baptized there as an adult, yet they taught that baptism gives one faith. However, I was born again in Sept/Oct of 1984 and was not baptized until February of 1985. So I always puzzled, what did baptism do for me, if it gives faith, but I already had faith.

I tend to forget that you don‘t have state churches in the US where you are automatically affiliated by birth and expected to get baptized as a child and obliged to pay church tax unless/until you quit. My parents never quit the reformed state church but attended a free church so I was born affiliated to the state church but not baptized as a child. 40 years later I quit the state church and got finally baptized in my current church after a spell of 20 years of not attending any church. Where does that curriculum fit on your list, Ernie?

[Bootstrap]

I tend to forget that you don‘t have state churches in the US where you are automatically affiliated by birth and expected to get baptized as a child and obliged to pay church tax unless/until you quit.

When I moved to Germany, I was surprised to see the immigration papers ask us for our religion. I checked 'Other' and wrote "Mennonite". Later, I was surprised to learn that I would have had to pay taxes to a State Church if I had written 'Protestant'.

[Fidelio]

I tend to forget that you don‘t have state churches in the US where you are automatically affiliated by birth and expected to get baptized as a child and obliged to pay church tax unless/until you quit.

When I moved to Germany, I was surprised to see the immigration papers ask us for our religion. I checked 'Other' and wrote "Mennonite". Later, I was surprised to learn that I would have had to pay taxes to a State Church if I had written 'Protestant'.

In another thread we were discussing whether Anabaptists are Protestant. There were a variety of opinions on it, but I now see value to not classifying them as Protestant.

[Dan Z]

When I lived in Germany, I talked to a German who told me that German food is among the best in the world because it has so much variety. I asked him about Chinese food, he said it was all just rice and stir fry. I asked him about Indian food, he said it was all just curry. I asked him about American food, he said it was mostly hamburgers and french fries. To be fair, I think a lot of people probably would have similar stereotypes about German food.

Yes, German food is the wurst.

Brot-er, I don't think this is the case at all - sounds like a schmear to me, nicht?

[Ernie]

How many 4B’s would not agree with 4C? I think not many.

Good point. I realize now that I need to word 4C in such a way that makes #4C inconsistent with #3. I've had #3's tell me that I believe in a works salvation. 4B's would say that they do not believe we are saved by works, but in function they do believe that works save us. Otherwise they wouldn't say an adulterer is going to hell. Conservative Anabaptists often use #3 for initial salvation and #4 for ongoing salvation.

[ken_sylvania]

How many 4B’s would not agree with 4C? I think not many.

Good point. I realize now that I need to word 4C in such a way that makes #4C inconsistent with #3. I've had #3's tell me that I believe in a works salvation. 4B's would say that they do not believe we are saved by works, but in function they do believe that works save us. Otherwise they wouldn't say an adulterer is going to hell. Conservative Anabaptists often use #3 for initial salvation and #4 for ongoing salvation.

I would disagree with the underlined. I think there is a difference between believing we are saved by works, and believing that deliberate sin damns us.

[Fidelio]

Missing the mainline protestant (reformed and Lutheran) approach: saved if baptized as an infant, and Calvinist: saved if predestined.

I joined the Lutheran church when I was 27 years old and was baptized there as an adult, yet they taught that baptism gives one faith. However, I was born again in Sept/Oct of 1984 and was not baptized until February of 1985. So I always puzzled, what did baptism do for me, if it gives faith, but I already had faith.

excerpt: "That realm, that all-embracing cosmos, has many strange facets. Sin of course has its prior place there, and worldly lusts; but no less part of it are our more estimable human standards and ways of doing things. The human mind, its culture and its philosophies, all are included, together with all the very best of humanity's social and political ideologies. Alongside these too we should doubtless place the world's religions, and among them those speckled birds, worldly Christianity and its "world Church." Wherever the power of natural man dominates, there you have an element in that system which is under the direct inspiration of Satan."

(what immersion saves us from )
http://articles.ochristian.com/article1912.shtml

Interesting article, though I think it could have been summed up in far less words. Anyway, the thief on the cross who Jesus said would that same day be with him in Paradise, was that thief baptized? So it is not absolutely necessary to be baptized to be "saved" if saved means dying and going to Paradise. However, whomever despises baptism surely is in a troubling situation. So, salvation is by grace through faith. Baptism is a declaration of and commitment to living as a new creation. So what is problematical is when a person is baptized before they have faith, as in infant baptism. Of course the Lutherans claim that baptizing an infant gives that infant saving faith.

[MaxPC]

I'm trying to identify the differences between various faith traditions on the subject of salvation and the Gospel. I'm aware that I may not being identifying these correctly. Some may be too simplistic and others too lengthy. So help me out.

1. For the Orthodox, salvation is achieved by Christ’s triumph over death in the Resurrection. As a result, Greek art, unlike Western art doesn’t fixate on the figure of the bleeding, crucified Christ. When we come to Christ as sinners, we have no works to offer to Him, but only faith and repentance. Orthodox believe that there is nothing that a person can do to earn salvation. It is rather a gift from God. But once we come to Him and receive the gift of salvation, we enter into a sacred covenant to honor Him with good works. The sacraments of Baptism (Rom 6:1-11) and the Eucharist (1 Cor 10:16-22; 11:23-32) are decisive to salvation.

2. For Catholics, Jesus saved man and allowed him to reach heaven by paying the price for sin through his death by crucifixion. Eternal life, divine life, cannot be merited but is a free gift of God. The crucifixion of Jesus is explained as an atoning sacrifice, which, in the words of the Gospel of John, "takes away the sins of the world." One's reception of salvation is related to justification. Salvation is complete union with the Blessed Trinity. It begins with faith in Jesus Christ and baptism, but it does not end there. Catholics don’t believe that faith alone saves us, for they do not believe that an unincarnate faith can save. Salvation is, then, a living relationship with God. It is created and sustained by grace, is born in faith, grows in love and bears fruit in glory. Participation in the sacraments, offered to them through the Church, is a way Catholics obtain grace, forgiveness of sins and formally ask for the Holy Spirit. These sacraments are: Baptism, Confirmation (Chrismation), the Eucharist, Penance and Reconciliation, the Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony.

3. Evangelicals: They often talk about personal salvation, about “how you get saved,” and the familiar answer is: Accept Christ as your personal Savior in sincere prayer, ask Him to come into your heart and forgive your sins, and you are saved. You are then put right before God and enjoy a personal relationship with Christ. This (forensic or legal justification) act/event is called “justification by faith” or more generally “salvation by faith,” apart from good works. Many Evangelicals recall the exact date and time of being “born again” and celebrate it as the foremost event in their lives. Evangelicals do not differentiate between works of the OT law, works that do not flow from a sanctified heart, and works of righteousness. They consider all works "filthy rags".

Subcategories of Evangelicals:
3A (Evangelicals: cheap grace/unconditional eternal security) If a 3A Evangelical lives an unholy life, it is assumed that he is still a Christian since he cannot lose his salvation.

3B (Evangelicals: costly grace/Lordship salvation/unconditional eternal security) If a 3B Evangelical starts out as a Christian but eventually walks away from God and holy living, it is assumed that he never was a Christian or else he would not be living in bondage to sin.

3C (Evangelicals: Arminian, one can lose his salvation) ????

4. Plain Anabaptists: Salvation is by faith. We cannot earn our salvation. Unholy living jeopardizes our salvation.

Subcategories of Plain Anabaptists:
4A (Older Orders) We cannot know if we are saved. We do the best we can and hope God will be satisfied. The more "alive" Old Orders believe we can have a "lively hope".

4B (Conservatives) We can know that we are saved. Basically #3, plus, "works show that we are indeed saved".

4C (Anabaptists with early church/early Anabaptist theology)
"Christ in you", Christ taking up residence in us makes us righteous and enables us to live lives that are pleasing to God, even if we do not do it perfectly.

Ernie, from what I can tell, you’ve pretty much surrounded the Catholic view adequately. The only bit I would add is the Biblical basis for Catholic teaching re Grace, Conversion, and Salvation. It is based upon the Parable of the Sower found in the Gospels (eg Matthew 13, Mark 4 and Luke 8.)

[Josh]

It would be worth a fifth section;

5A: One is saved upon confession of faith combined with full-immersion baptism. One continues to experience saving grace by being part of a church of believers who also hold this view; one loses their salvation by choosing to live in grave sin. This would be the Stoney-Campbellite view, the largest group being Church of Christ.

5B: Same as 5A, except one is saved upon confession of faith combined with full-immersion baptism specifically in “Jesus’ name”, provided immediately after baptism the supplicant speaks in tongues. A “second work of grace” will eventually happen to a genuinely saved believer, evidenced by things like women growing their hair long and wearing skirts or dress, men choosing to not watch TV, and so on. This would be the Oneness Pentecostal view, which has millions of adherents.

5C: One is saved upon confession of faith followed by a full immersion baptism with an emphasis on the Trinity, such as being dunked three times. These types of believers would generally believe in a special form of grace granted to a sincere believer who has not yet been baptised but wants to be. This would be the German Baptist view, broadly speaking.

5D: Salvation is a mystery but some kind of baptismal regeneration is required, so early church baptism practices should be practiced. This seems to be very common in the “Kingdom Christian” circles such as Followers of the Way or groups that are influenced by Bercot’s writings. There is not a strong belief that believers who are not yet baptised cannot be saved.

Of note is that 5B and 5C would perform rebaptisms of a person previously baptised the 5A way. 5A and 5B both believe if you die in a car crash on the way to church to be baptised, you would go to hell, so they generally keep a baptismal tank ready for on the spot baptisms during cold weather.