Speaking in Tongues?

[Judas Maccabeus]

The Bible speaks against faking spiritual gifts. It specifically speaks against faking speaking in tongues. What astonishes me is how many people want to justify faking spiritual gifts. How this must grieve the Spirit of God!

It's wrong to fake it. Neither Sudsy nor myself justify faking it
It's also wrong to blaspheme the Holy Spirit in the true
Isn't Satan victorious when he is the only one getting credit for Supernatural power
But God is also grieved when His children don't understand spiritual "gifts" and teach partial truth.

Once again, you cannot simply redefine words to suit your “experience “ you must adjust your teaching to suit the definition of the word you are discussing. This “adjustment “ of the scriptures to suit experience characteristics the tongue speaking movement. Why do you think it goes into such extreme doctrine so readily? If you can define words to suit the end result is heresy like the so-called “Toronto Blessing “ and the weirdness coming out of Bethel Readding. If you think this honors God, think again.

[Valerie]

The Bible speaks against faking spiritual gifts. It specifically speaks against faking speaking in tongues. What astonishes me is how many people want to justify faking spiritual gifts. How this must grieve the Spirit of God!

It's wrong to fake it. Neither Sudsy nor myself justify faking it
It's also wrong to blaspheme the Holy Spirit in the true
Isn't Satan victorious when he is the only one getting credit for Supernatural power
But God is also grieved when His children don't understand spiritual "gifts" and teach partial truth.

Once again, you cannot simply redefine words to suit your “experience “ you must adjust your teaching to suit the definition of the word you are discussing. This “adjustment “ of the scriptures to suit experience characteristics the tongue speaking movement. Why do you think it goes into such extreme doctrine so readily? If you can define words to suit the end result is heresy like the so-called “Toronto Blessing “ and the weirdness coming out of Bethel Readding. If you think this honors God, think again.

I heard weird things happened in Toronto, you live to ascribe me to approving of counterfeit. I don't. But as Satan often does, he shows up to counterfeit where the true is happening. So- perhaps there was real in Toronto. I never went there. I distanced myself from Charismatics when it seemed they became fire chasers- Bethel is so weird, at least in Redding -

[Ken]

My question is this:

How is babbling incoherently a gift? What is the gift? I can babble incoherently. Anyone can. An infant can do that. I don't need to be gifted that ability. I already have it.

Speaking an actual foreign tongue. Now that would be a gift. If I was suddenly and miraculously able to speak Russian or Chinese and share the word of God in those languages or any other. That would be an actual gift.

Did this happen in Biblical times? According to scriptures, yes. It is no more or less believable than any other miracle described in the New Testament.

Does it happen in modern times? I dunno. I have yet to see proof of it. Just like I have yet to see proof of any other so-called modern miracle like faith healing or exorcisms.

[Sudsy]

My question is this:

How is babbling incoherently a gift? What is the gift? I can babble incoherently. Anyone can. An infant can do that. I don't need to be gifted that ability. I already have it.

Speaking an actual foreign tongue. Now that would be a gift. If I was suddenly and miraculously able to speak Russian or Chinese and share the word of God in those languages or any other. That would be an actual gift.

Did this happen in Biblical times? According to scriptures, yes. It is no more or less believable than any other miracle described in the New Testament.

Does it happen in modern times? I dunno. I have yet to see proof of it. Just like I have yet to see proof of any other so-called modern miracle like faith healing or exorcisms.

I believe an answer to your first question that my mom especially believed in is found in 1 Cor 14:2 - 'For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.' So this is understood that we are built up spiritually speaking (edified) when we participate in this practise. My mom and many others I know believe that this is a powerful private way to pray and many of these people that pray as such are very deicated and fruitful believers.

Regarding modern day faith healings, there are the phonies, but I have also witnessed what I believe are real miracles. Many doctors have been blown away by what they were working on was instantly, miraculously healed. And those who have had such healings have no doubt when God heals them in a miraculous way. God still works supernatutally, otherwise none of us would be even saved.

[Judas Maccabeus]

It's wrong to fake it. Neither Sudsy nor myself justify faking it
It's also wrong to blaspheme the Holy Spirit in the true
Isn't Satan victorious when he is the only one getting credit for Supernatural power
But God is also grieved when His children don't understand spiritual "gifts" and teach partial truth.

Once again, you cannot simply redefine words to suit your “experience “ you must adjust your teaching to suit the definition of the word you are discussing. This “adjustment “ of the scriptures to suit experience characteristics the tongue speaking movement. Why do you think it goes into such extreme doctrine so readily? If you can define words to suit the end result is heresy like the so-called “Toronto Blessing “ and the weirdness coming out of Bethel Readding. If you think this honors God, think again.

I heard weird things happened in Toronto, you live to ascribe me to approving of counterfeit. I don't. But as Satan often does, he shows up to counterfeit where the true is happening. So- perhaps there was real in Toronto. I never went there. I distanced myself from Charismatics when it seemed they became fire chasers- Bethel is so weird, at least in Redding -

You are aware that the same interpretational methodology that results in the so called “prayer language “ where the whole assembly speaks in tongues together is used to justify what you are called excesses result in this. I have friends that went the Bethel-Redding route, and there is so much more that I did not bother to show. IF one accepts that speaking tongues in a group setting using a prayer language is an acceptable practice, the same interpretational rubric can clearly justify this. As such, you would stand guilty of what you accuse me of.

The word used for tongues is properly translated “Languages “ so says every Greek reference on my shelf. Before about 1910 this sort of stuff was unheard of. What I have shown is mild. I know people who lay on graves trying to acquire the spirit of the deceased based on 2 Kings 13:21! Do you approve of this practice, it once again uses the same interpretational rubric as the tongues movement.

Whatever do you have against Mennonites? You seem to celebrate everyone who leaves.

[Junior2877]

It's fascinating when someone brings up " Paul said do not forbid speaking in tongues " when in the same chapter he does forbid in verse 28 " if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church"

[Valerie]

It's fascinating when someone brings up " Paul said do not forbid speaking in tongues " when in the same chapter he does forbid in verse 28 " if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church"

I think he was clarifying when it is appropriate.
At our church we used to go to we had at least a couple of people with the gift of interpretation. So tongues were allowed if there was one spoken, we’d wait for the interpretation. It was all done in order as Apostle Paul laid out in his teaching of the gifts in Corinthians. If there was a prophetic word, it was tested. I somewhat miss that environment at times.

[Junior2877]

Book quote( I speak in tongues more than you all. By G.F.rendal)

"The Language of the Angels

It was at this time that I asked a pastor how he explained the incomprehensible aspect of speaking in tongues. He answered that it might be an angelic message. "Poor angels," I thought. "Can't they speak any better than that? Is that all there is to the heavenly tongues of angels?" I was disappointed. I expected something better. I even went so far (God forgive me) as to think that if angels didn't speak any better than that, then I spoke better than they did! And what's more, I thought that if Shakespeare were in heaven (God rest his soul) the angels would have a hard time carrying on a conversation with him. He would probably send then back to school! No, frankly the pastor's explanation did not satisfy me at all. His answer seemed to be a dishonest way of avoiding a relevant question. But since the Bible does speak about the tongues of angels, I consented that it might be true. By


faith I had to accept it, admitting that I could be wrong and asking God to forgive me for questioning the form of expression that He chose to give His angels. Who is to judge God's choice (Rom 11:34,35)? Since this pastor quoted the Bible, I decided to see for myself what the Scriptures had to say on the subject. I hoped ever so slightly that what he said was true. But all I found was a new disappointment to add to the others. I discovered that, without exception, every time the angels spoke it was in comprehesible, contemporary human language, never a heavenly tongue. The only reference I found to the tongues of angels was in I Corinthians 13:12, "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels..." It made me sick. I felt that I had been duped by this distorted usage of the Scriptures. It is evident that in this passage Paul is using "though" or "if" as a hyperbole. Paul never had the knowledge of all mysteries since several verses later he states that he only knows in part (I Cor 13:12). Paul never gave his body to be burned. He never bestowed all his goods to feed the poor. Nor did he speak all the tongues of angels and of men. Paul makes it all the more evident that he could not speak the tongues of angels by referring to them as "words which man is not permitted to speak" (II Cor 12:4). He also uses the conditional mood with this hyperbolic "if". Even a child would understand this grammatical structure. How could a mature man, the shepherd of a flock, promote such an unfounded argument? I was stupefied. It was an isolated case, true, but this man was not just anyone, and I fear that many may have adopted his reasoning for their own, though in so doing, they would only be undermining their own position."

[Junior2877]

Book quote( I speak in tongues more than you all. By G.F.rendal)


“All this helped me to understand three things:

1) That speaking in tongues always has to do with living, spoken languages of the different nations of that time.

2) That if one is not careful, the phrase "no one understands" can easily become an umbrella for those who would have everyone believe that what is practiced in certain churches today is the same as what was practiced in the apostolic church since no one

understands neither then nor now. An abuse of this phrase "no one understands" eliminates any means of verification and leads straight to uncontrollable counterfeit.

3) That Paul, in spite of the authenticity of the use of the gift of tongues in his time, would not allow it to be exercised unless it was followed by an interpretation; that the assembly of believers was not the place to exercise the gift (I Cor 14:27); that it was better to remain silent or only speak to oneself than to speak in tongues under those conditions (I Cor 14:28). With the Holy Spirit's authority Paul establishes the rules for the use of this gift and condemns any misuse of it right at the time in church history when the "charisma" (gift) was fulfilling its purpose. The reason he writes, "I speak in tongues more than you all" (1 Cor 14:18) is evident. His call to be an apostle to the nations-peoples of many. languages was constantly questioned by his Jewish. adversaries. Thus he showed them that foreign tongues could praise the Jehovah of Israel as well as theirs. And to prove it, this liberated ex-Pharisee, with Jewish lips, proclaimed the wonders of the God of the Jews among the Jews in a pagan tongue! Wonders for some (the converted Jews and pagans), and fiery judgment for others (the unbelieving Jews infuriated with jealousy).”

[Valerie]

Book quote( I speak in tongues more than you all. By G.F.rendal)


“All this helped me to understand three things:

1) That speaking in tongues always has to do with living, spoken languages of the different nations of that time.

2) That if one is not careful, the phrase "no one understands" can easily become an umbrella for those who would have everyone believe that what is practiced in certain churches today is the same as what was practiced in the apostolic church since no one

understands neither then nor now. An abuse of this phrase "no one understands" eliminates any means of verification and leads straight to uncontrollable counterfeit.

3) That Paul, in spite of the authenticity of the use of the gift of tongues in his time, would not allow it to be exercised unless it was followed by an interpretation; that the assembly of believers was not the place to exercise the gift (I Cor 14:27); that it was better to remain silent or only speak to oneself than to speak in tongues under those conditions (I Cor 14:28). With the Holy Spirit's authority Paul establishes the rules for the use of this gift and condemns any misuse of it right at the time in church history when the "charisma" (gift) was fulfilling its purpose. The reason he writes, "I speak in tongues more than you all" (1 Cor 14:18) is evident. His call to be an apostle to the nations-peoples of many. languages was constantly questioned by his Jewish. adversaries. Thus he showed them that foreign tongues could praise the Jehovah of Israel as well as theirs. And to prove it, this liberated ex-Pharisee, with Jewish lips, proclaimed the wonders of the God of the Jews among the Jews in a pagan tongue! Wonders for some (the converted Jews and pagans), and fiery judgment for others (the unbelieving Jews infuriated with jealousy).”

It is true, there is a variety of teachings about this as well as interpretation of the Scriptures about the gifts, suffice to say, like most things in Christianity, it is why there are different denominations. There are many from Anabaptist heritage who have & believe in the Spiritusl gifts, when it is authentic, opinions against them mean nothing to those who have the gifts and use them correctly, after all, they are “gifts” the Holy Spirit gives. A purposeful blessing and glory to God.