Crisis of Authority

[mike]

A friend recently said that he thinks there has been a collapse of respect of authority. The context was the authority of the church, the Mennonite church in particular. I have been rolling around some questions.

Has there been a collapse of respect for authority in the Mennonite church?
The church at large?
Society at large?

Who is supposed to be the authority in the Mennonite church?
The church at large?
Society at large?

What are the good and bad things about there being no central authority?
What are the good and bad things about our ability to choose the authority to which we submit ourselves in terms of what church we attend?

The greatest loss of respect for a central authority in terms of the church was probably during the Protestant Reformation, and has done nothing but grow since then.

I've been thinking about how God chose to terminate the tower of Babel project, because men would potentially accomplish something so great that they would be concerned primarily with making a name for themselves, neglecting his commands. I think that God may do similar things with the monolithic structures we humans create for ourselves even within the church, and for similar reasons.

God is supposed to be the supreme authority after all. But at the same time he has established human authority. How do these work together?

[JohnL]

These are really good questions Mike.
I stand on the knowledge that God is much bigger and much greater than any human plans or scheming. He proved that with the Tower of Babel.
There’s so many different kinds of people including natural leaders and natural followers. I’m looking at the examples around us too. I personally don’t think everyone is called to be a Free Will Baptist or a Mennonite or a Hutterite or whatever. I see it as God leading us to whatever situation where we can best serve him.

A friend recently said that he thinks there has been a collapse of respect of authority. The context was the authority of the church, the Mennonite church in particular. I have been rolling around some questions.

Has there been a collapse of respect for authority in the Mennonite church?
The church at large?
Society at large?

Who is supposed to be the authority in the Mennonite church?
The church at large?
Society at large?

What are the good and bad things about there being no central authority?
What are the good and bad things about our ability to choose the authority to which we submit ourselves in terms of what church we attend?

The greatest loss of respect for a central authority in terms of the church was probably during the Protestant Reformation, and has done nothing but grow since then.

I've been thinking about how God chose to terminate the tower of Babel project, because men would potentially accomplish something so great that they would be concerned primarily with making a name for themselves, neglecting his commands. I think that God may do similar things with the monolithic structures we humans create for ourselves even within the church, and for similar reasons.

God is supposed to be the supreme authority after all. But at the same time he has established human authority. How do these work together?

[JohnH]

A friend recently said that he thinks there has been a collapse of respect of authority. The context was the authority of the church, the Mennonite church in particular. I have been rolling around some questions.

Has there been a collapse of respect for authority in the Mennonite church?

Yes, at least in moderate-conservative and intermediate-conservative settings.

Perhaps not as severe, but there seems to have been a similar change in Old Order and Holdeman settings. For example, in Old Order settings, some people simply ignore a minister and a bishop asking them to remove the home Internet they installed, get rid of the vehicle they bought, get rid of their smartphones, and disconnect their electric service. But the church member simply ignores it and demands a bishop committee, which stalls the process several years.

Quite a change for a group that has simultaneously been accused of being all "rules based" and controlling the lives of its members.

The church at large?

Yes.

Society at large?

Yes, and I think there is largely a consensus on that.

Who is supposed to be the authority in the Mennonite church?

The membership, culminating in the leaders they ordain. (Note this is my own, more congregational view - some conference-style Mennonites prefer a self-perpetuating board style of governance, where the existing ordained leadership controls who is ordained in the future instead of the membership.)

The church at large?

Should be the same, right?

Society at large?

Now that's a good question. There actually are authority figures in society at large...

What are the good and bad things about there being no central authority?

Well, there certainly is a central authority. We just often do not think about who and what it is.

What are the good and bad things about our ability to choose the authority to which we submit ourselves in terms of what church we attend?

"Every man does what is right in his own eyes."

The greatest loss of respect for a central authority in terms of the church was probably during the Protestant Reformation, and has done nothing but grow since then.

I've been thinking about how God chose to terminate the tower of Babel project, because men would potentially accomplish something so great that they would be concerned primarily with making a name for themselves, neglecting his commands. I think that God may do similar things with the monolithic structures we humans create for ourselves even within the church, and for similar reasons.

God is supposed to be the supreme authority after all. But at the same time he has established human authority. How do these work together?

Well, there is a central authority in society, which can be seen by how mindlessly conformed society is to things. To wit:

- Everyone feels that they have to use and own smartphones and that they basically can't participate in society without them.
- Most people use social media type of apps, and allow the social media "algorithm" (which really means what the elites of society decide they want people to think and believe) to dictate what they believe.
- People tend to get the same kinds of tattoos.
- People consume drugs that society decides they should consume. This used to be tobacco, but now that is less popular. Nowadays the elites have ordained that people should consume various cannabis drugs alongside vaping or other forms of nicotine use.
- That it's not good to get married young but instead people should fornicate, cohabitate, and then get married later in life.
- That people should have small family sizes.
- (This is a new one:) That people should use AI, and indeed, if they do not, they don't deserve to be able to have a successful job, business, etc.

So respect for authority is actually higher than ever, because most people conform to the above things. The difference is that church denominations are no longer in the "driver's seat" and determining really any of the above.

[joshuabgood]

What establishes authority and how does one get it?

Perhaps the authority to be desired isn't positional, political, or even ecclesiological. Perhaps it is like Jesus' was. An authority not like the scribes (that is those with positional, political and ecclesiological authority). Instead his authority emanated from his moral authority. People listened because his words had integrity, his character was obvious, he challenged what needed challenged, he loved the least among him, etc.

In the end, I am pretty convinced this is the only kind of authority that works. And when the scriptures speak to authority, this is what they mean. They don't mean, what we often think of, some kind of coercive power. We discuss as a staff that this authority represents what we are going for in the classroom, in our communities, homes, etc.