Anabaptism and Revivalism

[mike]

There has been stuff like that in the Hutterite world but to my knowledge not in the recent past. People from a generation before me talk about the "charity movement" moving through. I don't know what things are like in the Old Order world but Hutterites in my circles do access the internet and have cell phones so a lot of the influence is coming more from the media people consume.

My exposure to Hutterites was to some of these ex-Hutterites who left the colonies for PA due to influence from the Charity movement 25-28 years ago. I learned to know them at Charity Bible School, but can't say I have met too many of them in the years since. So was that sort of thing only a phenomenon of that specific generation, and isn't happening any more?

[cooper]

I don't have time to respond in full, but I wanted to point you to this article by Dennis Martin: https://archive.goshen.edu/news/april-2003-martin/. He converted from Old Order Mennonite to Catholic and makes a similar observation. He ultimately argues that the tradition can't sustain itself under the conditions of modernity:

A fascinating read that does a great job of articulating the challenges for assimilated Mennonites.

[JimFoxvog]

Nearly all Anabaptists who conform to the world end up assimilating to the surrounding culture.

Anabaptism basically exists because of the Old Orders.

My observations suggest otherwise. It seems to me that Anabaptism exists because of the desire to be faithful to the teachings of Jesus. Most of the members of my MC-USA church have come out of different traditions: Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, independent, Pentecostal, etc. We've become Mennonites because the tradition aligns better with Biblical teaching on peace, caring for the poor, justice, simplicity, and service to others.

People aren't looking to leave old traditions or to adopt them.

[Silentreader]

I haven't thought about this topic in awhile but the David Martin Mennonites have wide open Internet in their businesses...yet have a phone shack at the end of the land. Also, their children go to public school. I am really intrigued.

The David Martin's don't have phone shacks. A lot of them have school-children shacks, as they send their children on the bus to public schools. Probably most of the Dave Martins carry cell-phones but some do also have landlines.

Their are Amish in the area who have phone shacks at the end of the lane.

Curious if you were in the Linwood-Wellesley-Hawkesville community or the Dundalk- Badjeros one.

Wellesley, beautiful country but alas, very expensive. TY for the info about the shacks. We have 3 sided structures in the US but I cannot say that I have ever seen anyone utilizing them. My wife and I assumed they were phone shacks. Are the barn colors mandated?

Not sure if the colors are mandated but certainly a very strong commonality, I guess I notice the house color just as much. It is very rare, especially in the older parts of the community, for that to vary from the norm.

[barnhart]

I think a movement such as anabaptism needs both roots and wings, the former to provide stability and latter to allow innovation for a changing world. Failure on either front will make a group unhealthy or unsustainable.

I see parallels between the paths of Anabaptistism and Methodism, both emerged as critiques from the inside but Methodism lost or never contained the idea of being the outsider. They started literally outside, meeting in fields and hedges then under improvised roofs, then walls, then church buildings and eventually became the sort of institution they initially left. This arc of success, greater numbers, more money and power, more influence, more mainstream acceptance, was part of their undoing.

In The Politics of Jesus J.H. Yoder (insert appropriate author warning) coined the term "acceptance of establishment responsibility" to capture the influence that comes with power. He uses it to illustrate how the influence of Jesus differs from the wielding of worldly power. I wonder if this lies at the root of how a group stays faithful and avoids compromise over time. You have to be willing to be irrelevant sometimes if you intend to be faithful.

[JohnH]

In The Politics of Jesus J.H. Yoder (insert appropriate author warning) coined the term "acceptance of establishment responsibility" to capture the influence that comes with power. He uses it to illustrate how the influence of Jesus differs from the wielding of worldly power. I wonder if this lies at the root of how a group stays faithful and avoids compromise over time. You have to be willing to be irrelevant sometimes if you intend to be faithful.

I've always found this depiction of Jesus a bit suspect. He founded a very powerful institution called the church (unless one subscribes to theories that the church Peter and Paul founded and their successors administered for the next few hundred years wasn't the true church), and in turn Jesus exercised quite a bit of power and influence himself.

Jesus also did not say we needed to be irrelevant to be faithful. He was quite relevant and indeed turned the world upside down. But if one wants to be irrelevant then one needs to give the utmost respect the Old Orders, who generally stay in their own sphere and are a silent witness, unlike the attempts of "urban" Mennonites to be "relevant" but generally accomplish very little.

[Julian]

I interact mostly w the Dariusleut and I am wondering if you are a Schmiede 1, do you have revival meetings or go to other countries to "witness for the Lord"? More progressive groups like the Eastern PA Mennonite conference and Holdeman's do a lot of evangelism in other countries and they have "revival meetings".

The Dariusleut had members in Japan for a while...correct me if I am wrong.

Hello, yes I am Schmied 1. At this point we don't do either of those things. I would say the revivalism is strong undercurrent now that shows up in a few different ways. It shows up in how people talk and what they post on their WhatsApp status or on Hutterite groups. It shows up in the sermons of some ministers. The messages and sermons from Fort Pitt are a big influance in some circles (a breakaway Hutterite group that is influenced by revivalism); In some communities bible studies have popped up, and so on.

That's right, there was a community in Japan but I believe it has died off now. There is also a community in Nigeria that came out of the Hutterite-Bruderhof interaction.

[Ernie]

I think a movement such as anabaptism needs both roots and wings, the former to provide stability and latter to allow innovation for a changing world. Failure on either front will make a group unhealthy or unsustainable.

I see parallels between the paths of Anabaptistism and Methodism, both emerged as critiques from the inside but Methodism lost or never contained the idea of being the outsider. They started literally outside, meeting in fields and hedges then under improvised roofs, then walls, then church buildings and eventually became the sort of institution they initially left. This arc of success, greater numbers, more money and power, more influence, more mainstream acceptance, was part of their undoing.

This is precisely why the Pilgrim Conference decided to amiably divide into three groups.

[JohnH]

Early Methodists met at a prestigious university, then in Anglican meeting spaces, and eventually the Church of England didn't feel like they wanted to endorse what they were doing so they just started meeting in private homes or in pubs (which is funny to think about since a century later, they would have been denouncing taverns).

Methodism was never a radical nor a reformation movement, either, but merely was people inside an Anglican context trying to figure out how to better be and practice Christianity until it eventually grew into something bigger - in particular, it was ripe to grow in America where allegiance to the Church of England made little sense in post-revolutionary America and where the remnants which were left of that in the Episcopal Church tended to be identify with wealth and prestige, and which overall generally failed to establish outposts in the growing American frontier.

[cmbl]

Im an outsider/seeker that has joined and been part of a very conservative mennonite church for a few years now.

Ill give my opinions for what they’re worth.

“What experiences do you have with revivalist/evangelical movements in your setting?”
None, its been historically clamped down upon my conference’s entire existence. I view this as a positive. Though it has always existed in a sublimated form as quiet complaints like “maybe we should reach out more” or “we should show our gratitude toward Jesus in our worship”. These dont really go anywhere.

OK, this piques my interest...what group? Ohio Wisler? Ohio-Indiana Wisler? Weaverland Conference?